Were USAAF aircrew considered volunteers?

[Stephan Wilkinson]

I just read something interesting that I'd never been aware of, in the book "Air Apaches," about the 345th Bomb Group B-25 strafers.

"No official stigma or punishment was attached to requests to be removed from combat flying. All aircrew in the United States Army Air Forces were volunteers and could not be forced to fly."

Does anybody know for sure whether this is or is not true?

[martin_sam_2000]

I just read something interesting that I'd never been aware of, in the book "Air Apaches," about the 345th Bomb Group B-25 strafers.

"No official stigma or punishment was attached to requests to be removed from combat flying. All aircrew in the United States Army Air Forces were volunteers and could not be forced to fly."

Does anybody know for sure whether this is or is not true?

I am under the impression that even tho they were in in the military and couldn't leave, the choice to be an aircrew was theirs and they could leave flight status and be reassigned to another role without any detrimental affect on their record.

In the RAF, a refusal to fly resulted on the designation LMF ( lack of moral fiber) and resulted in that person being unable to serve in any meaningful position in the military in the future. Officers would be stripped of commission and NCO’s were demoted to LaC and forced to do menial tasks like latrine duty.

Very different outcomes for an airman suffering from combat stress!!

Sean

[p51]

Keep in mind that aircrew was a role that people competed for. Most considered it a better life than slogging through the war on the ground as infantry (especially early in the war when the allies weren't doing all that well).
Generally, I think it was considered as a "Careful what you wish for" kind of thing once the heavy bomber losses became known generally. I don't think that fighters were considered as much of a "you'll never make it home" prospect that bombers were by 1943, though.

I am under the impression that even tho they were in in the military and couldn't leave, the choice to be an aircrew was theirs and they could leave flight status and be reassigned to another role without any detrimental affect on their record.

I have talked with many 8th AF vets in the past and most of them told me they could turn in their wings if it got too rough, but generally they considered theirs a better lot in life than in a tank or a foxhole.
That's what they assumed awaited those who said they couldn't hack it. If that was accurate for official policy, I was never able to determine.
I once talked with a B-17 co-pilot (don't remember which group) who landed his bird as the only non-wounded member of the crew, covered in the remains of his pilot. As soon as he got out of the flak house (rest center) he walked into the air exec and handed him his wings. He said they made him a ADC for a general stateside as his command decided he'd really had enough, even for that line of work.
He also said he was shunned by the other aircrew on base before he got on the plane back to CONUS. He never flew a plane again, up to the time I met him in the 90s...

[Scott Rose]

That has to be a tough decision. Heck, when I do voluntary overtime I have to constantly convince myself to stay at work.
And no one is shooting at me (at least most of the time)

[JohnB]

I've heard that as well. They were volunteers.
Given the stress they were under...as dramatized in Twelve O'Clock High, it's a wonder more didn't un-volunteer.

Shows what pride, dedication, honor, patriotism and I suspect...peer pressure...will do.

God bless them all...

[menards]

There are a lot of these stories out there....

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily ... ailgunner/

If you have a choice...flying sounds better than the infantry. Just my two cents.

[JohnB]

If you have a choice...flying sounds better than the infantry. Just my two cents.

And note that enlisted crewmembers were NCOs.
Better pay, more privileges.

And as Jimmy Stewart said in the recruiting film he made (he really didn't want to trade in his fame but Hap Arnold asked him to) having wings got the attention of the ladies.

[bdk]

In the movie Catch-22 this didn't seem to be the case?

[JohnB]

In the movie Catch-22 this didn't seem to be the case?

There wouldn't be much of a book (or later film) if everyone was a well adjusted happy camper.

[CraigQ]

If you have a choice...flying sounds better than the infantry. Just my two cents.

And note that enlisted crewmembers were NCOs.
Better pay, more privileges.

And as Jimmy Stewart said in the recruiting film he made (he really didn't want to trade in his fame but Hap Arnold asked him to) having wings got the attention of the ladies.

The aircrew being NCOs was in regard to the Geneva Convention item that excluded officers from being used as labor as a POW, even though non commissioned. But I am sure they appreciated the extra pay and privileges.

[shrike]

If you have a choice...flying sounds better than the infantry. Just my two cents.

And note that enlisted crewmembers were NCOs.
Better pay, more privileges.

And as Jimmy Stewart said in the recruiting film he made (he really didn't want to trade in his fame but Hap Arnold asked him to) having wings got the attention of the ladies.

The aircrew being NCOs was in regard to the Geneva Convention item that excluded officers from being used as labor as a POW, even though non commissioned. But I am sure they appreciated the extra pay and privileges.

It was mostly a way for Arnold to loophole better pay for aircrews without completely altering the accounting structure. Every combat aircrewman was at least a Staff Sergeant. The US use, perception and definition of an NCO vis a vis the common European was a whole 'nuther ball o wax.

[menards]

If you have a choice...flying sounds better than the infantry. Just my two cents.

And note that enlisted crewmembers were NCOs.
Better pay, more privileges.

And as Jimmy Stewart said in the recruiting film he made (he really didn't want to trade in his fame but Hap Arnold asked him to) having wings got the attention of the ladies.

The aircrew being NCOs was in regard to the Geneva Convention item that excluded officers from being used as labor as a POW, even though non commissioned. But I am sure they appreciated the extra pay and privileges.

There were other Geneva Convention items, correct? I thought I remembered reading that generally speaking, enemy fighters and gunners were not allowed to shoot at aircrews after they bailed out of their planes and were parachuting down, however firing at paratroopers was ok. I thought this was because there were officers on bombers and paratroopers were all enlisted.

[JohnB]

The aircrew being NCOs was in regard to the Geneva Convention item that excluded officers from being used as labor as a POW, even though non commissioned. But I am sure they appreciated the extra pay and privileges.

If that is accurate, I would suspect the decision would have been made at the War Department level, not USAAF/USAAC.

So that begs the question: were USN, USMC aircrew all NCOs?
I don't think so.

[JohnB]

There were other Geneva Convention items, correct? I thought I remembered reading that generally speaking, enemy fighters and gunners were not allowed to shoot at aircrews after they bailed out of their planes and were parachuting down, however firing at paratroopers was ok. I thought this was because there were officers on bombers and paratroopers were all enlisted.

If you are in the armed forces you get periodic briefings on the Geneva Convention.
I've sat through and even given the briefings, so I can answer this.

Simply, a person parachuting from a disabled aircraft is considered helpless...basically surrendering....so don't shoot.

A paratrooper is an combatant...so he is fair game. His method of delivery to the battlefield is a parachute but he's not using it to save his life after this aircraft becomes disabled. A rough analogy would be it's okay to sink a landing craft or shooting down a helicopter delivering combatants.

It has absolutely nothing to do with rank....and I'd run afoul of some Army acquaintances if I didn't note that some paratroopers are officers.

[p51]

Every combat aircrewman was at least a Staff Sergeant.

I have been to a coiuple of 8th AF reunions over the years and have met more than a few vets who were buck SGTs as gunners in bombers in the ETO.