Rare Curtiss Kittyhawk IV FX594 ...

[Mark Allen M]

Per the ebay listing.

"This is Curtiss Kittyhawk IV FX594 possibly at Hamble in October 1944. The RAF were allocated 536 Kittyhawk IV's but very few reached the UK, most going to the Soviets or Commonwealth Air Forces mainly the SAAF. FX594 came to the UK for testing at the A&AEE and was retained by Air Service Training".

[Buz]

Not shooting the messenger - however seem to have their info just a little wrong - basically not a rare photo other than in the Camouflage its in and I hope he's not asking any more than around USD 5 depending on the size. RAF Used a large number of P-40N's just not in England, 3 Squadrons were still using them when the war ended, these being 250 SQN, 450 SQN and 11 SAAF.

If you want a copy of picture 2 let me know, I have one that I'm happy to supply as the photo is from a National Archives file, and therefore not interested in making money off it.

Mark Could you send me the link please for the item.

Buz

[Mark Allen M]

Greetings Buz, perhaps the seller meant rare being located in the UK at the time. I’ll find the listing and post it. Btw is that a black under surface? Looks to be. That would certainly be different.

[Buz]

Hi Mark

No worries thanks, as for the under colour she's in standard day fighter colours for the time, underneath does look dark, however it'll be medium sea grey

Buz

[Mark Allen M]

Here's the ebay link.
https://picclick.com/Kittyhawk-Iv-Fx594 ... 61199.html

[Tony C]

With regard to the lower surface camouflage colour, as FX594 was used by the A&AEE, could it be yellow?

If you look at the outer ring on the roundel (which is yellow) and if I remember correctly, some film used at the time (was it Kodachrome?), when developed made yellow appear to be a dark colour and the two areas seem to be a similar shade so putting 2 and 2 together (equals 6 right?).

My reasoning being that the RAF had the lower surfaces colours of prototype and trainer aircraft painted yellow, and though I have no idea if aircraft flown by the A&AEE would be painted as such.

I've not been on the site for 4'ish years plus being of a certain age and the grey matter is not what it once was, I could be spouting complete rubbish so hopefully, I'm in the right area and haven't appeared stupid, though it wouldn't be the first time

[Buz]

Hi Tony

An interesting thought on the yellow, however I would think not, as they certainly didn't do it to the Tomahawk or the other 6 + Kittyhawks that went through A&AEE (which were left in the arrival finishes)

The aircraft doesn't carry the P circle marking which you'd normally associated with seeing a yellow unders, however as always with black and white photos it's never a positive. However based on your thoughts maybe they didn't finish this one in Medium Sea Grey (although you'd expect them to, having done the upper colours), how about maybe left the unders in NG? food for discussion?

@ Mark - Thanks for the Link - I saw how much they went for.......ouch

Buz

[Tony C]

Hi Buz,
Thanks for the reply, as I said, it was only a thought and based on your statement "as they certainly didn't do it to the Tomahawk or the other 6 + Kittyhawks that went through A&AEE", would agree with you

[Randy Wilson]

Since the images in question to "color" are B&W, the question may be if they were shot with an older orthochromatic film which did show colors in the red end of the spectrum, especially yellow, to be very dark, if not black or dark grey. There are a number of examples of WWII aircraft B&W images in which the RAF markings with yellow band are dark, almost certainly because the film was the older orthochromatic type. Panchromatic B&W film was more expensive and had to be developed in the dark, compared to in the red light in which orthochromatic film could be handled. My 2 cents.

Randy

[Dana M Bell]

Hi Folks,

Curtiss was delivering those P-40Ns in desert camouflage of Middlestone, Dark Earth, and Azure Blue. Perhaps the upper surfaces have been repainted, but I suspect the undersides are still Azure Blue.

Cheers,


Dana

[Mark Allen M]

May be rare after all ...

So far there's black underside, dark grey, yellow and blue.

[k5083]

My 2 cents.

Definitely orthochromatic b&w film.

I thought by the time of the Mk.IVs, Curtiss was delivering the planes in US Army olive drab over neutral gray. Some RAF units just left them in these colors. But i wouldn't presume to dispute Dana on it!

This one has the look of having had British camo applied at an MU. Setting aside the tones, the pattern is non-standard.

Note that olive drab areas have been left around the stenciling below the cockpit where the stenciling was masked off to preserve the data.

Ocean grey often looks lighter than it should on ortho film because it has quite a blue tint. Medium sea grey is quite neutral. This results in tones like those you see, which sometimes have confused viewers into thinking that it is mid-stone/dark-earth/azure.

All that said, the underside color does look pretty dark, and it is possible that they left it as neutral gray rather than medium sea grey.

August

[Mark Allen M]

This view rules out black for me.