French Warbirds and the new law?
Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:16 am
All
Cross posted from a Mil-Veh list I'm on....Looks like the French Gummint is trying to ban ANYTHING military, new, old, restored, flying, wheeled or tracked...
Yikes!
<<snip>>
This is indeed true and quite worrisome. I spent the week-end at the Paris
Antic Car Show and talked with the President of FFVE, the French Federation of
Historic Vehicles. This Federation consolidates the 950 historical vehicles
(military and civilian) clubs, which represents 15000 collectors. The MVCG
(Military Vehicle Collector Group) mentioned in your email is part of the FFVE.
The FFVE President is in direct contact with French authorities to address this
issue.
Here is the story
A recently enacted law (Nov 2005), called "loi sur la securite interieure" (i.e.
interior security law) has organized weapons into 8 groups; from group 8
(collector and historical neutralized arms) to group 1 (missiles and modern
military weapons). For reasons still unknown to us, all military vehicles
(land, air, sea) are in group 2. This includes, as mentioned in your email, any
land vehicle designed for military use (i.e. GMC, Dodge, Jeep, but also Hummers,
...).
French law requires any one who wants to own a group 2 weapon (i.e. 38 or 45
hand guns, rifles,...) to file a demand with the Law Enforcement Authorities.
Authorizations are very seldom granted and now most fire arms users join
shooting range clubs where they find guns for rent. It is likely that obtaining
an Authorization to own a half-track, but also a jeep, will be quite difficult.
If authorization is not granted by the end of October 2006, the vehicle must be
sold to someone who has the authorization, or turned down to French authorities
for destruction.
When the law was initially drafted, it stated that MV could not be used in
public roads, except during special cerimonies, with police escort.
Fortunately, the FFVE got this issue resolved. But the following requirements
remained:
- all vehicles must be kept locked in a secure garage (i.e. no parking in the
street unattended)
- extra measures must be taken to prevent anyone starting the vehicle (simple
ignition key is not enough)
This law is currently legally challenged by the FFVE, but that's what they have
been doing for the last two years with little success. If no resolution is
found within the next few months, all our vehicles could end up in museums (sale
value close to nothing) or destroyed. The law limits export and import
transaction, so selling to a foreign buyer is hardly an option.
Cross posted from a Mil-Veh list I'm on....Looks like the French Gummint is trying to ban ANYTHING military, new, old, restored, flying, wheeled or tracked...
Yikes!
<<snip>>
This is indeed true and quite worrisome. I spent the week-end at the Paris
Antic Car Show and talked with the President of FFVE, the French Federation of
Historic Vehicles. This Federation consolidates the 950 historical vehicles
(military and civilian) clubs, which represents 15000 collectors. The MVCG
(Military Vehicle Collector Group) mentioned in your email is part of the FFVE.
The FFVE President is in direct contact with French authorities to address this
issue.
Here is the story
A recently enacted law (Nov 2005), called "loi sur la securite interieure" (i.e.
interior security law) has organized weapons into 8 groups; from group 8
(collector and historical neutralized arms) to group 1 (missiles and modern
military weapons). For reasons still unknown to us, all military vehicles
(land, air, sea) are in group 2. This includes, as mentioned in your email, any
land vehicle designed for military use (i.e. GMC, Dodge, Jeep, but also Hummers,
...).
French law requires any one who wants to own a group 2 weapon (i.e. 38 or 45
hand guns, rifles,...) to file a demand with the Law Enforcement Authorities.
Authorizations are very seldom granted and now most fire arms users join
shooting range clubs where they find guns for rent. It is likely that obtaining
an Authorization to own a half-track, but also a jeep, will be quite difficult.
If authorization is not granted by the end of October 2006, the vehicle must be
sold to someone who has the authorization, or turned down to French authorities
for destruction.
When the law was initially drafted, it stated that MV could not be used in
public roads, except during special cerimonies, with police escort.
Fortunately, the FFVE got this issue resolved. But the following requirements
remained:
- all vehicles must be kept locked in a secure garage (i.e. no parking in the
street unattended)
- extra measures must be taken to prevent anyone starting the vehicle (simple
ignition key is not enough)
This law is currently legally challenged by the FFVE, but that's what they have
been doing for the last two years with little success. If no resolution is
found within the next few months, all our vehicles could end up in museums (sale
value close to nothing) or destroyed. The law limits export and import
transaction, so selling to a foreign buyer is hardly an option.
Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:04 am
That sounds like the Demil law that they tied to pass over here! Turn them in for the government to destroy ! I bet the French govt won't reimburse the owners for their loss, either. Thank God it was killed over here.
Re: French Warbirds and the new law?
Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:11 pm
Just preparing for the next big surrender I suppose...m50a1ontos wrote:....Looks like the French Gummint is trying to ban ANYTHING military, new, old, restored, flying, wheeled or tracked...
Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:30 pm
Just another example that "LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER"-------------in this case, the french version of liberalism!!
Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:16 pm
Hi Guys
We will all rally around the French in their time of need - i am personally happy to take delivery of vast quantities if french historic aircraft and I am sure my collegues inthe UK are happy to do the same !!!
Seriously what the hell is this nutty law all about I just can't understand some pollies and I work with them every day . I think you will find this is a fairly easilly defeated law but it is the effort you will have to go through to defeat it that will be such a waste of time and some money no doubt
I suggest you get in touch with the Yanks and see how they defeated theirs - could save a lot of time
Regards and good luck
John
We will all rally around the French in their time of need - i am personally happy to take delivery of vast quantities if french historic aircraft and I am sure my collegues inthe UK are happy to do the same !!!
Seriously what the hell is this nutty law all about I just can't understand some pollies and I work with them every day . I think you will find this is a fairly easilly defeated law but it is the effort you will have to go through to defeat it that will be such a waste of time and some money no doubt
I suggest you get in touch with the Yanks and see how they defeated theirs - could save a lot of time
Regards and good luck
John
Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:27 pm
bdk....... your comment was very well put!!
Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:20 pm
Guys...
Unfortunatly, French export laws are pretty restrictive. On the Mil-Veh list I haunt, this very same idea came up. By the time all the paperwork gets proscessed (IF it even gets approved!) the scrap man will have done his evil deed.
The drop dead date is Nov. 06...and the possibility of exporting all that historic iron before then is pretty slim.
They let a bunch of teenagers loot pillage and burn Paris....so they ban 60 year old jeeps and airplanes to solve the problem?
One idea that might work though.....drive/fly everything to a neihboring MV freindly country and park it at a buddy's house/hanger. Just gotta leave plenty of wine and cheese with the border guards!
Unfortunatly, French export laws are pretty restrictive. On the Mil-Veh list I haunt, this very same idea came up. By the time all the paperwork gets proscessed (IF it even gets approved!) the scrap man will have done his evil deed.
The drop dead date is Nov. 06...and the possibility of exporting all that historic iron before then is pretty slim.
They let a bunch of teenagers loot pillage and burn Paris....so they ban 60 year old jeeps and airplanes to solve the problem?
One idea that might work though.....drive/fly everything to a neihboring MV freindly country and park it at a buddy's house/hanger. Just gotta leave plenty of wine and cheese with the border guards!
Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:51 am
m50a1ontos, your cause to effet kids llotering/military vehicule is far from being well choosen… The ex-military vehicule problem in France dates back to year 2000. It has been an on going problem since then… and do not count on those ex-military planes, tanks, jeeps, boats, being sold abroad, as if you do not get permission to own them first, there is no way you will get permission to export.
The latest news about this law if that it has been attacked on january 31st by a lawyer outfit reprensenting half a dozen association, and it has been done at the highest level court of the country, the one judging laws or law projects.
The latest news about this law if that it has been attacked on january 31st by a lawyer outfit reprensenting half a dozen association, and it has been done at the highest level court of the country, the one judging laws or law projects.
Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:09 am
The French deserve to be delivered from their Gov. This is crazy; the only problem is I can see us being in the same spot in 10 years maybe less. This seems to be a global trend and we should be careful about being to happy at seeing someone get what we think they deserve, what comes around go around. (Strange, I’m sticking up for the French. Maybe its because the food is so so good and the wine is almost worth the price it costs) 
If need be maybe they can ALL fly over to Legends and seek asylum in England. Or better yet make the jump to Geneseo or Thunder of Michigan. After all they help us gain our freedom 200+ years ago we’ll give them a warm welcome.
If need be maybe they can ALL fly over to Legends and seek asylum in England. Or better yet make the jump to Geneseo or Thunder of Michigan. After all they help us gain our freedom 200+ years ago we’ll give them a warm welcome.
Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:43 am
I will pass on your suggestion
The problem tends to be that law texts are being written by people just fresh out of lawyer schools, with absolutely no knowledge of the field they are asked to writes laws about… and this applies even to everyday life. They are just ignorant, and do not have a clue… and remain shletered in some big buildings ful of other people like them - and they all congratulate the fellows law writers for the good job they think they do… they have no clue that their nicely written words affect the real life orf real people. The movie Brazil springs to mind…
The problem tends to be that law texts are being written by people just fresh out of lawyer schools, with absolutely no knowledge of the field they are asked to writes laws about… and this applies even to everyday life. They are just ignorant, and do not have a clue… and remain shletered in some big buildings ful of other people like them - and they all congratulate the fellows law writers for the good job they think they do… they have no clue that their nicely written words affect the real life orf real people. The movie Brazil springs to mind…
Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:14 pm
TimApNy wrote:The French deserve to be delivered from their Gov.
Isn't France next on the invasion list? I think they would make a fine 53rd state.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:16 pm
Shay wrote:TimApNy wrote:The French deserve to be delivered from their Gov.
Isn't France next on the invasion list? I think they would make a fine 53rd state.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
I knew I should have rewritten that statment.
Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:50 am
Well, your firend got lucky for what they succeeded, and the other one are being told bull….
A simple example : a lady doing artwork from unserviceable plane parts got in trouble last year when she received 4 prop blades bought from Jay Wisler, in Tampa. These were from B-26. As soon as the little Custom officer in Nice read that these were used on a bomber, he seized them. She went to the higher officer to explain these were of WWII vintage and that they were also used on civilian transport plane, but to no avail. He said they fall under Cat. II (war) weapon and would be destroyed as she did not have any import licence. Her husband finally got in touch with a local politician and she was finally given the blades, but not before she paid a heafty fine…
This new law is effective now since november 25, 2005.
As for the Pink Lady, I do not believe it would be well perceived that she be sold after she was GIVEN to the group taking care of her…
A simple example : a lady doing artwork from unserviceable plane parts got in trouble last year when she received 4 prop blades bought from Jay Wisler, in Tampa. These were from B-26. As soon as the little Custom officer in Nice read that these were used on a bomber, he seized them. She went to the higher officer to explain these were of WWII vintage and that they were also used on civilian transport plane, but to no avail. He said they fall under Cat. II (war) weapon and would be destroyed as she did not have any import licence. Her husband finally got in touch with a local politician and she was finally given the blades, but not before she paid a heafty fine…
This new law is effective now since november 25, 2005.
As for the Pink Lady, I do not believe it would be well perceived that she be sold after she was GIVEN to the group taking care of her…
Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:28 pm
Just a Note:
The Valiant Air Command Warbird Museum, just last month roll out their ME 208 which was recovered from France.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
The Valiant Air Command Warbird Museum, just last month roll out their ME 208 which was recovered from France.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:33 am
There is no me 208 extant today - only two prototypes were made and have been destroyed. There plane is a french built Nord 1101…