Hells Angles or Memphis Belle

[Jiggersfromsphilly]

I have heard that contrary to opinion, Hells Angels of the 303, not Memphis Belle, was the first plane in the 8th to complete 25 missions. Wasn't there a few planes picked out by William Wellman to film in the event they didn't finish 25?

[warbirdguy]

Yes, I believe there was a plane set up as a back up known as the Hells Angels as you stated in your message. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

[Trey Carroll]

I heard that the Hell's Angels crew was the first to reach the mark but the 25 mission goal hadn't been put into action. Like I said, that is what I have heard.

[Tim Landers]

Intersting thread. here is info. from the 303rd site http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/303 ... 00078.html

Tim

[airnutz]

Intersting thread. here is info. from the 303rd site http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/303 ... 00078.html

Tim

That's the distinction I was trying to dig outta my gray matter after reading
this thread. Memphis Belle was 1st to complete 25 AND return to States.
Also sounds like Morgan was taking pains to ensure Hells Angels place as
1st for 25 in his autograph.

As Trey Carroll pointed out... When did the Official "count" for the 25
mission goal begin?

[Tim Landers]

That is a good question, here is what I found so far from the Library of Congress:
The Army Air Force had decided that 25 missions completed the tour of duty because of the physical and mental strain on the crew. A year earlier, in 1942, the average bomber crew completed 8-12 missions before being shot down or disabled. In early 1944 the number of missions required to complete his tour of duty was extended from 25 to 30.

Tim

[airnutz]

Later this evening, I planned to dig out my Freeman's book on the 8th AF
to see if he gives the date...post Hurri Rita, it's still across town in storage.
Anyone else hadda look yet?

[Tim Landers]

It will be interesting to get the facts and dates. While digging through the posts at the 303rd BG site I came across a thread I found interesting. Here are the exchanges:

Jack,
I am asking you these questions thru the list because I think other members might be interested in your answers. I searched the 303rd site, but did not find what I was looking for, so now I ask you.

I discovered the other day that your pilot was Werner Goering, nephew of Herman Goering. What a curious thing. Can you tell me about him? I find it interesting that he was 'allowed' to serve with a family connection like that. Do you know the story behind that? Did the military resist his entry to the service?

Was he not at great risk if he were shotdown? Did he ever talk about his family connection? Obviously it did not bother him that he was attacking his native land or did it? Was he more driven because of this? Was he accepted as just another GI doing his job? Did the press follow him around?

Sorry for the list of questions, but this is really a unique situation and I find it very curious.

Thanks Jack!!

REPLY:

Dave,
You have asked me 10 questions, some of which I know the answers and
some I do not. On those I do not know I may express an opinion so be aware I
could be mistaken. I am not humble. I am quite conceited, self confident and on
most subjects very opinionated. When I had 10-15 missions behind me I believe I
was one of the two best darn 4-engine combat pilots in the 8th Air Force.

Question # 1. Can you tell me about him? Yes, #2. You found it
interesting he was "allowed" to serve, etc., # 3. Do you know the story behind that?
Yes, but maybe not all the story. # 4. Did the military resist his entry into
the service? Yes, some. # 5. Was he at great risk if he was shot down? Yes,
were not all of us? If you meant was he at a greater or lessor risk than the
rest of us? I've thought about that a lot but have no opinion. I do not know. #
6. Did he ever talk about his family connection? Yes, to me, but not to
others.

# 7. Did it bother him that he was attacking his native land? Yes,
when we had
Cologne as a target. His Grandmother lived there. # 8. Was he more driven
because of this? I don't know but I would doubt it # 9. Was he accepted as just
another GI doing his job? No # 10. Did the press follow him around? No.

Werner G. Goering like all of us had some strength's and some
weaknesses. He was a skillful formation pilot and did not show fear. I personally
thought he had poor judgment typical of youth as he took unnecessary risks when
there was no reason nor benefit to do so. He was neat, clean, a sharp dresser and
in every sense military minded. He did not smoke, drink, swear, or chase
women. He was very much a loaner and while I served with him I knew of no one
other than maybe me who was his close friend or buddy.
He and I got along well together and I believe made an excellent team. I
know of no one I would rather serve as copilot with other than maybe Robert
J. Lynch...

Werner was a native born American, born and raised in Salt Lake City
Utah. He was German and spoke German fluently. One of my Grandmothers was German.
We had many German Americans in our 8th A.F. including some Sqdn and group
COs and lead pilots.

Werner and I were both were held up a bit and investigated before we
were assigned on a crew. I was told who he was and asked to and did volunteer to
fly with him before I ever met him. I have no regrets. I might very well be
dead had I gone into fighters as I had requested and was trained to do in pilot
training. I learned to love B17s and still do. I also feel fortunate to have
served with the 303rd BG and the outstanding people therein.
As I approach the end of life I feel I have been very fortunate to have
lived in and served this, the greatest country that ever existed and very
likely the best time that shall ever exist for us ordinary people.
Best Wishes,
Jack Rencher


Tim