Warbird type rating question

[maxum96]

I know that warbirds are designed and built to military standards and as such can't necessarily be type rated the same as a civilian designed and built aircraft. My question is, what would the difference be for example between a P-38 registered in the Limited category versus a P-38 in the Experimental category?

[b29driver]

If there are both Limited and Experimental examples of an aircraft such as the P-38 the holder of an Experimental Authorization can only legally fly the Experimental version. The holder of a Type rating can legally fly either version.

The Experimental authorization (L-P38) does not require instrument approaches and appears on the pilot certificate under the Limitations section.

The Type rating (L-P38) requires the complete ATP checkride and would likely have to be accomplished using two airplanes so that the examiner can observe the approaches. It appears on the pilot certificate under ATP, Commercial or Private.

The wording on older individual operating limitations of experimental aircraft can possibly allow some exceptions to some of the rules.

[maxum96]

If there are both Limited and Experimental examples of an aircraft such as the P-38 the holder of an Experimental Authorization can only legally fly the Experimental version. The holder of a Type rating can legally fly either version.

The Experimental authorization (L-P38) does not require instrument approaches and appears on the pilot certificate under the Limitations section.

The Type rating (L-P38) requires the complete ATP checkride and would likely have to be accomplished using two airplanes so that the examiner can observe the approaches. It appears on the pilot certificate under ATP, Commercial or Private.

The wording on older individual operating limitations of experimental aircraft can possibly allow some exceptions to some of the rules.

Thanks for the response. I guess what I meant was, why would you have two different P-38's in two different classes? What would cause them to be in different classes even though they're the same model aircraft?

[b29driver]

If the aircraft has been modified so that it no longer complies with the original type certificate it would likely be put in one of the Experimental categories.

[maxum96]

If the aircraft has been modified so that it no longer complies with the original type certificate it would likely be put in one of the Experimental categories.

Ok. gotcha. Thanks.

[RacingMustang]

If there are both Limited and Experimental examples of an aircraft such as the P-38 the holder of an Experimental Authorization can only legally fly the Experimental version. The holder of a Type rating can legally fly either version.

The Experimental authorization (L-P38) does not require instrument approaches and appears on the pilot certificate under the Limitations section.

The Type rating (L-P38) requires the complete ATP checkride and would likely have to be accomplished using two airplanes so that the examiner can observe the approaches. It appears on the pilot certificate under ATP, Commercial or Private.

The wording on older individual operating limitations of experimental aircraft can possibly allow some exceptions to some of the rules.

So as a rule I assume you have to have an ATP rating to fly warbirds not in the Experimental category?

[Cubs2jets]

So as a rule I assume you have to have an ATP rating to fly warbirds not in the Experimental category?

No, not true. Your Type Rating checkride will be to the standards of the license you hold (or lesser license, if desired). For example, if I hold an ATP, I could get a type rating in a B-25 to commercial pilot standards. My license may read ATP LR-JET B737 Commercial NA-B25.

C2j

[b29driver]

So as a rule I assume you have to have an ATP rating to fly warbirds not in the Experimental category?

No, not true. Your Type Rating checkride will be to the standards of the license you hold (or lesser license, if desired). For example, if I hold an ATP, I could get a type rating in a B-25 to commercial pilot standards. My license may read ATP LR-JET B737 Commercial NA-B25.

C2j

Not exactly correct. All type rating rides are done to ATP PTS standards. If you only hold a private or commercial the type rating will be listed there on your certificate, but the check ride is the same.
The B-25 type rating is N-B25.

[flightsimer]

I know that warbirds are designed and built to military standards and as such can't necessarily be type rated the same as a civilian designed and built aircraft. My question is, what would the difference be for example between a P-38 registered in the Limited category versus a P-38 in the Experimental category?

To answer your original question as to why some plane may have a limited vs experimental vs standard category... This is a bit condensed and simplified...

To use the C-47 as an example

The C-47 is its own designation and was strictly a military type built under military design standards. When those planes came onto the civilian market they had to go through a civilian standardization inspection. This meant that every individual plane would be inspected and any variation(s) that it had from the comparable civilian DC-3 model variant would have to be changed to meet the civilian variant's standard configuration. At that point a civilian airworthiness certificate would be issued under that civilian variant.

Our C-47 has always been operated by the government from the time it rolled out in 1944 until 2012 when it was finally retired and we purchased it. Because of this it does not currently have a civilian type certificate and when it does receive it, it will be classified as as a C-47D/DC-3D.

If a given airframe could not be standardized to an already existing variant, then two things could be done. It could be put into the experiemental category and operated as-is as a one off aircraft or if there was a bunch of planes all with the same non-conformal configuration, then a potential operator could send them through a civilian certification program and have then certified in the limited category.

A limited category aircraft is very similar to a standard category. However, instead of conforming to an already established variant, it is essentially making a new certified variant or type using the first first aircraft as the basis for others to follow.

In reality, the C-47 is not the greatest example to use as I do not know of any that are actually in the limited category. Ours is Experimental due to the additional permanent changes made to have a mosquito spray system installed. Eventually we would like to get it back into the standard category.

A good example of the limited category is the P-51. I believe quite a few have been put into that category. That all started out by someone going to the FAA and essentially having the design certified to civilian standards and given a civilian type certificate but with limitations to it due to design features from the military that would presumably be, cost prohibitive or impossible to change. So now if someone else wants to have their plane in the limited category, they must make theirs essentially the same as the first plane.

[bdk]

The Type rating (L-P38) requires the complete ATP checkride and would likely have to be accomplished using two airplanes so that the examiner can observe the approaches. It appears on the pilot certificate under ATP, Commercial or Private.

So the solo pilot of the P-38 has to do IFR approaches under the hood for the examiner to witness?

[b29driver]

No. The examiner and the P-38 pilot get in another airplane together and do the approaches.