3 Harvards at the bottom of a Canadian Quarry?

[Warbirdnerd]

RENTON -
An abandoned quarry sits on the north side of Highway 3 between Jarvis and Renton on the Norfolk-Haldimand county line.

The pit doesn’t look like much. Blink and you will miss it as you drive by.

But the pit is of great interest to the people at the Canadian Harvard Aircraft Association (CHAA). An old diver has told CHAA that three Harvard fuselages were deposited there 45 years ago as an attraction for the diving community. If true, they would be quite a find.

CHAA’s dive recovery team has conducted studies at the site numerous times in recent years. They come in winter, cut a hole in the ice and send remote cameras 20 metres to the bottom.

“We’ve found a truck, a car and a metal culvert that has been crushed,” Walt Irie of Ingersoll, chair of CHAA’s dive recovery team, said Wednesday. “To date, we have not found any fuselages. They could be in the muck. The muck is quite deep in places. The feasibility of recovery at this point looks very slim.”

Siltation is a real barrier to determining what lies at the bottom. The slightest movement of water from a diver or remote camera kicks up silt and envelops everything in darkness.

The fuselages were reportedly purchased at auction in 1970 from the estate of Ernie Simmons of Oxford County. Simmons, an eccentric, purchased vast amounts of military surplus at the end of the Second World War and stored it on his farm at RR 6 Tillsonburg.

Simmons' holdings were dispersed after his death at age 57. At the time, vintage Second World War aircraft could still be purchased at a relatively low price.

Conflicting information is in circulation about the quarry and what lies at the bottom of it. A posting on the CHAA website Feb. 22 says “The team has surveyed this particular site numerous times within the last three years and – while they have yet to identify the aircraft located beneath these waters they have confirmed fixes on at least three aircraft hidden beneath the surface.”

An associate member of the team is Bil Thurma of Toronto, a geophysicist and president of the company GeoTech. Thurma is assisting with the technical survey of the quarry and evaluation of the data. He too is confident something of interest lies at the bottom.

“We think the evidence is pretty sure that there are World War Two trainers down there,” Thurma said Wednesday.

“Whatever is in there is very well covered,” he added. “Because it’s covered with silt, if you come even close to it, the water gets cloudy. It’s quite a challenge to identify what is sticking above the muck.”

CHAA conducts its probes during the winter. Ice cover gives the silt a chance to settle. It will take a concerted effort and a fair amount of money to determine once and for all what the quarry is hiding.

“What CHAA needs is a sugar daddy,” Thurma said. “It’s doable. For $40,000 you could do it very nicely.”

CHAA has also told Dianne Jackson, who lives next door to the site, that old airplanes lie beneath the water. She said CHAA researchers have been visiting the quarry now for three years.

“I have the belief they are on the up and up,” Jackson said Tuesday. “It’s really quite an operation that they have going on there.”

Harvards were used to train fighter pilots during the Second World War. There was a Harvard training facility in the Hagersville-Jarvis area during the conflict.

CHAA is based in Tillsonburg. The group owns nine Harvards, a Yale trainer and a de Havilland Tiger Moth biplane. CHAA is also conducting search-and-recovery operations on Wolfe Island near Kingston and Crystal Beach on the north shore of Lake Erie.

Found it here:
http://www.simcoereformer.ca/2014/08/27 ... ear-renton

[Dan K]

Thanks for the story, Bryan!

I think that's the first time I've ever heard of Harvards coming out of the Ernie Simmons' auction though.

Hmm...

[JohnB]

I wonder if they're Yales?
I get the feeling the CHAA is using the term "Harvards" loosely here.

[Warbirdnerd]

No Harvards attributed to Simmons on Goodall's list, plenty of Yales though...

[rcaf_100]

Having been to the quarry in question myself helping out with the surveying back in the winter, I can say that if there is anything down there, we'll eventually find them.
However the visibility is maybe 3-4 feet in the winter and 3-4 inches in the summer

I'm doing the forehead slap reading that article...there's supposed to be 'three airplane fuselages' down there somewhere.
No photos or records to back it up yet....just off memories of locals.

The aircraft in the quarry could really be anything. We really hope that they're warbirds, but we'll wait and see.

I wonder if they're Yales? I get the feeling the CHAA is using the term "Harvards" loosely here.

I think the issue is that Mr Thuma is a great geophysicist who likes airplanes (he was on the team that found the 'Lost Squadron' in Greenland) but he has his facts mixed up a but.
Ernie Simmons NEVER had any Harvards on his farm. Period.
As to them being Yales, I've accounted for pretty much every Yale from Ernie's farm, so I don't see it being NA-64's in the quarry. I could be wrong though...

Another big problem in this area is that people assume that if they're yellow with a radial engine it must be a Harvard.
You should hear the people telling us at CHAA about the 'Harvards parked over at St. Thomas airport' and we kindly explain that the 'yellow airplanes with radial engines' are really PZL-Mielec M-18 Dromader crop dusters

Anyways, here's a view of us out on the ice earlier this year.

[JohnB]

As to them being Yales, I've accounted for pretty much every Yale from Ernie's farm, so I don't see it being NA-64's in the quarry. I could be wrong though...

It would be interesting to learn what became of the Yales.
Despite the number recovered from the farm, airworthy ones are still awfully rare.

I recall from the Air Classic article about the sale (the first AC I ever bought) that one went to a guy who was going to use it as a plaything for his kids.
It would be interesting to know what became of it.

And, were there any/many other (i.e. not ex-Simmons') Yales out there?

[CoastieJohn]

I've spoken to Bil Thuma a couple-three times on Duck Hunt related subjects. He does seem to know his craft.

My question....has the water always been muddy/low vis? If so, why use it as a dive site....or better yet, was it actually ever a dive site? That may provide further answers as to whether aircraft were actually put there to dive on.