A few 'amateur' P-51 Mustang questions ...

[Mark Allen M]

... I ask simply because I don't know ... and not afraid to ask


What are these for? haven't seen that scoop thing before on a mustang.


What is all this stuff? I kind of have an idea but I'm sure there's a few here that can really get into it.


Can't make out what this is for.


Antenna type? and what was it used for?


I've seen this mustang photo a few times and can't recall seeing another P-51 with this type of 'God awful' looking canopy. Experiment perhaps?


Lastly what's this 'protective material' used for?

Photo source for the Swiss mustangs here:
http://www.mc-one.ch/Documents/right%20 ... -51-1.html

Last edited by Mark Allen M on Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[mike furline]

Picture #1 - The button is part of the Emegergency Release for the canopy. The scoop - no idea, most likely some sort of test/experimental equipment?

Picture #2 - The forward box is part of the radio equipment (SRC-522?). The aft box holds the battery.

Picture #3 - I believe that is the Volt gauge.

Picture #4 - Per Joe Baughers site "A total of 163 of these P-51Ks were completed as F-6K photo-reconnaissance aircraft. 126 Inglewood-built P-51Ds from blocks 20, 25, and 30 were converted after completion as F-6Ds. A few others were similarly converted near the end of the war. All of these photographic Mustangs carried two cameras in the rear fuselage, usually a K17 and a K22, one looking out almost horizontally off to the left and the other one down below looking out at at an oblique angle. Most F-6Ds and Ks carried a direction- finding receiver, serviced by a rotating loop antenna mounted just ahead of the dorsal fin. Most F-6Ds and Ks retained their armament. "

Picture #5 - (per Joe Baugher site) 44-84945 (18th FBG, 67th FBS) crashed after target run May 15, 1952.

Picture #6 - (per Joe Baugher site) 45-11370 (2nd SAAF Sq) crashed near Yo-do, Korea Mar 2, 1951.

[K5DH]

Gee whiz, Mark... you at least need to spell "ammetuer" correctly!

[Mark Allen M]

I swear it wasn't me ... it's that d*mned WIX auto-spell check. Get's me every time
Thusly corrected ...

[51fixer]

Picture #1 - The button is part of the Emegergency Release for the canopy. The scoop - no idea, most likely some sort of test/experimental equipment?

Picture #2 - The forward box is part of the radio equipment (SRC-522?). The aft box holds the battery.

Picture #3 - I believe that is the Volt gauge.

Picture #4 - Per Joe Baughers site "A total of 163 of these P-51Ks were completed as F-6K photo-reconnaissance aircraft. 126 Inglewood-built P-51Ds from blocks 20, 25, and 30 were converted after completion as F-6Ds. A few others were similarly converted near the end of the war. All of these photographic Mustangs carried two cameras in the rear fuselage, usually a K17 and a K22, one looking out almost horizontally off to the left and the other one down below looking out at at an oblique angle. Most F-6Ds and Ks carried a direction- finding receiver, serviced by a rotating loop antenna mounted just ahead of the dorsal fin. Most F-6Ds and Ks retained their armament. "

Picture #5 - (per Joe Baugher site) 44-84945 (18th FBG, 67th FBS) crashed after target run May 15, 1952.

Picture #6 - (per Joe Baugher site) 45-11370 (2nd SAAF Sq) crashed near Yo-do, Korea Mar 2, 1951.

Top 2 photos are from Swiss AF service.
#1 Scoop was installed on Swiss Mustangs. Best guess is cockpit ventilation. You can see part of the Swiss Cross on the top of the wing by th tip.
#2 Battery has the 6114 on it. Large knob facing camera is the Cannon Battery Connector, it threads the connector and holds it in place. Just visible at the top point of the triangle is the baking soda jar. Battery is vented with air in under pressure and would give off fumes as it charges. Baking soda in the jar (think Mason Jar) absorbs the fumes as the air is vented overboard.
#3 is an Amp gauge. They didn't have a Volt gauge AFAIR. Today many have a combination Amp/Volt gauge where there is a button you push and the gauge will read Volts while the button is pushed and held.
#4 Direction Finder Antenna
#5 NAA produced Canopies with different profiles. The print has more than 5 profiles IIRC. This one might have been made for the TP-51 that NAA first modified keeping a back seat and controls within the stock cockpit area. At least it looks like it has added room in the back for a second head. I've seen the TP-51 in flight photo and it strikes me as similar shape.
#6 Snow or Fire fighting foam is all I can think of. Canopy doesn't appear melted and foam doesn't look like its dripping so I'd say strongest probability is snow and someone left the canopy open.

[Mark Allen M]

Rich, how difficult was it to take off the canopy back in the day. Was it a quick release thing or did it take some time and effort. And do mustangs have some sort of quick release today? I'm thinking about the Duxford incident a few years ago with the P-51 and skyraider. Looked like a quick release lever or something for the canopy on that mustang. Good thing too if I recall.

Also in the first photo what would that small deal be just below and to the right of the scoop sticking up? Looks like some sort of valve or hose.

Thx M

[Ken]

In the 2nd photo the upper wing has some reference lines painted parallel to the fuselage. Obviously reference marks, but for what? They are not angled as we've seen on the F-6D but remind me of some sort of oblique offset one might use when paralleling a target at different altitudes.

Ken

[Jerry O'Neill]

Ken,
I'm not 100% sure, but those lines on the wings might be horizon lines to use when banking over a recce target for oblique cameras on an F-6 Mustang.

[Iclo]

My personnal amateur question: how do you close/open a cockpit from the outside (in normal use)
There is an handle in the cockpit ? so, ok when there is someone inside, but the plane is empty ?
Stupide question, I know, but I never asked

[CraigQ]

My personnal amateur question: how do you close/open a cockpit from the outside (in normal use)
There is an handle in the cockpit ? so, ok when there is someone inside, but the plane is empty ?
Stupide question, I know, but I never asked

In the first picture of Marks the small button ( in the red square) he asked about is pushed to release the canopy crank inside and allows the canopy to be slid aft. In a sense it puts it in neutral. There is a handle on the canopy frame that folds out to use to move the canopy aft while pushing in on the button.

In the same picture just touching the red square on the forward side around the button is a bar that when pushed and then pulled actuates the emergency canopy release from the outside.

[Mark Allen M]

Thx Craig, so when you push the button the bar on the left on the actual canopy pops out to then push aft to open the canopy? The bar just to the right of the button is used for emergency opening only?

Was/is there a way to lock the canopy shut? A key of some sort? Or was there really no need for locking the canopy back then? That button looks like it could fit a key as well. I'm sure current owners of P-51's have some sort of canopy locking device from the outside?

I suppose I should go look at one myself.

[51fixer]

Can't make out what this is for.

Black handle and knob just below the windshield frame is the crank to move the canopy. It features a locking ability which is the slots cut into the round plate where the handle mounts.
To release the lock you press the white button in the middle of the knob facing the pilot and visible in the photo. That allows you to crank the handle.
If your outside the button on the R/H side circled in the other photo does the same thing as pressing the button in the internal knob on the handle. It releases the lock. There is a spring loaded handle on most that flips out to grab to slide the canopy when the external button is pushed. Some canopies had a smaller cutout which you pressed and stuck a finger in to move the canopy.

For emergency release of the canopy from the A/C there is another system. The canopy is mounted to the tracks with 3 trucks that roll on 3 tracks. One is seen along the top of this photo. A part of the truck is seen at the right edge of the photo along the track.
Each track has a flat plate that runs the length of the track and this plate will rise up above the track and hit a release catch on the truck and release the canopy from the truck. These 3 plates are connected to a handle seen in the photo to the right of the canopy handle and above the small black box labeled with Warning on it. These connections to the track plates are by cable and pulleys on the L/H and rear tracks. There is a metal piece that connects the release handle to the R/H track just visible behind the canopy crank handle.
There is a rectangular handle on the outside skin just forward of the button you push to open or close the canopy on the outside that you pull to release the canopy on the ground.

This system is still used today and I remove the canopy at Annual inspections or if you need better access to the cockpit for work. Its quite easy to remove and install, just need a few people to accomplish.

[CraigQ]

Thx Craig, so when you push the button the bar on the left on the actual canopy pops out to then push aft to open the canopy? The bar just to the right of the button is used for emergency opening only?

Was/is there a way to lock the canopy shut? A key of some sort? Or was there really no need for locking the canopy back then? That button looks like it could fit a key as well. I'm sure current owners of P-51's have some sort of canopy locking device from the outside?

I suppose I should go look at one myself.

Rich explained it prety good, I was about to head out the door to work so mine was a short answer. The canopy isn't hard to release and remove, just bulky due to it's size. You need 3 people to do it without risk to damagiing it, something you DON"T want to even think about!

I have pics of the trucks with the canopy off from the last 51 annual I worked if you're interested.

Craig

[Mark Allen M]

Thanks again fellas, actually is quite fascinating stuff IMHO. And yes indeed it would be nice to see photos of these details. Fun to learn some of this stuff.

Again, do today's mustangs have an external key lock on the canopy / cockpit area? Or is that not really necessary?

[greatgonzo]

I have pics of the trucks with the canopy off from the last 51 annual I worked if you're interested.

Well, it is not only Mark, who is interested here. I am in the queue right behind.