Data Plate - WHY

[Courier Sportster]

quick question. I hope. i'm gathering that the many basically new builds are data plate restorations. does this mean that one cannot build a new P-51 from scratch without one? the FAA demands this? I don't see why, as long as an inspector comes by and signs off on airworthiness. it's not like you are ripping anybody off, you bought the metal and formed it into something that was not there before. clue me in on the ugly realities of the way things work please. is it North American who would have an issue with this? a licensing issue?

[Fouga23]

Depends on what category you want it to be in.

[shrike]

quick question. I hope. i'm gathering that the many basically new builds are data plate restorations. does this mean that one cannot build a new P-51 from scratch without one? the FAA demands this? I don't see why, as long as an inspector comes by and signs off on airworthiness. it's not like you are ripping anybody off, you bought the metal and formed it into something that was not there before. clue me in on the ugly realities of the way things work please. is it North American who would have an issue with this? a licensing issue?

The data plate and any supporting paperwork provide the legal identity of the airplane.
The data plate IS the airplane. Everything else is just parts that can be replaced.

You could build a Mustang from scratch, accurate to the last detail, but it would not, legally, be a North American NA-73. It would be registered in the Experimental - Amateur Built category with YOU as the manufacturer, and subject to all of the restrictions of the category. You could not sell rides. You could be limited in it's regular operation.
As the manufacturer, you would have a lot of leeway as to maintenance and repair, BUT, if you sold it, the new owner would not. He would have to refer only to the documentation you provided, or have things approved on an ad hoc basis. He may, or may not, be able to use any information from NAA, or previously approved Mustang documentation, because, legally, it's still not a Mustang.
Resale value would be low at best, as there is no provenance, or cache with a 'homebuilt' As an analogy. I could build a GT-40 kit car, improving every aspect of the original - more horsepower, better reliability, better handling, greater comfort, but it will never be a GT-40, and will never make national news on the block of an auction house.

[Baldeagle]

The Bill of Sale is more important than the data plate. If you have paperwork showing that you own a particular airplane it doesn't matter if it's 100 per cent original or zero per cent original, as far as the FAA is concerned it's original. New data plates can be and are made, I know of one guy who even buried a new one in the ground for six months to make it look like an old one. Some airplanes are just 100 per cent repaired. Now, establishing a paperwork trail for something that crashed or disappeard 70 years ago can be a trick. The data plate thing is overblown, you need a Bill of Sale signed by the last registered owner, or some "proof" of a paperwork trail since the airplane was built. Happens all the time.



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[Jack Cook]

George Preddy's Mustang is soon to fly again!

[Invader26]

The Bill of Sale is more important than the data plate.

So I pull a wreck from somewhere and rebuild it. There is no Bill of Sale from the original owner. A good example is Glacier Girl. Did the UD DOD provide a Bill of Sale to the new owner - no!

[Jack Cook]

If someone receives official permission to dig up/recover/salvage a wreck then they own it.
Buy wreck junk from them along with a bill of sale, dump junk behind hanger and attach the paperwork
you just bought to your new built airplane and you now have a real life warbird. Whether it crashed into a lake,
bored itself into the earth going 500 mph or was hit in mid-air by a 500# bomb it is the real mccoy because the paperwork says so.

Last edited by Jack Cook on Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[The Inspector]

All much simpler than getting a home built Hot Rod past your States DMV, where they suspect that the dirt on the suspension might be stolen-a data plate and a pickup truckload of scrap aluminum nets you, with a stiff enough injection of intaglio portraits of deceased Presidents and statesmen a 'real' belchfire F-93. Bring a truckload of reciepts proving EVERY part on that wrecking yard salvaged '55 Chevy 210 coupe is legal.

[Enemy Ace]

....Ahhh, the Belchfire F-93, now that's one sexy beast!!

Attachments

[DH82EH]

Also known as the "Mustangicorn"

Only available in rainbow

Andy

[tow-3]

You could build a Mustang from scratch, accurate to the last detail, but it would not, legally, be a North American NA-73. It would be registered in the Experimental - Amateur Built category with YOU as the manufacturer, and subject to all of the restrictions of the category. You could not sell rides. You could be limited in it's regular operation.
As the manufacturer, you would have a lot of leeway as to maintenance and repair, BUT, if you sold it, the new owner would not. He would have to refer only to the documentation you provided, or have things approved on an ad hoc basis. He may, or may not, be able to use any information from NAA, or previously approved Mustang documentation, because, legally, it's still not a Mustang.
Resale value would be low at best,

all good points but a few points that need correction.
1. subject to all the restrictions of the category.
that is just one of the nice points of EAB, once out of phase 1, there are very few restrictions on the aircraft.

2. you would have a lot of leeway as to maintenance and repair, but, if you sold it, the new owner would not.
totally false. anybody can do maintenance on an EAB aircraft, no certification required. the only thing that someone without the repairman certificate must do is have the condition inspection signed off by an A&P. an IA is NOT required. any other maintenance and modifications can be done by anybody.

3. resale value would be low at best.
true, the value would never reach that of a certificated aircraft with lineage, I bet a well built EAB mustang would bring a very high dollar figure. thunder mustangs are bringing upwards of 750k. I am willing to bet that the late gerry becks A model, even though it was EAB would have brought a very nice price.

however, here is were the problem lies. there would be a fairly large number of forgings, castings, and other very special parts that would have to be made that would make the cost of building such an aircraft cost prohibitive. also, by having these parts fabricated by an outside shop you could run into the problem of having the FAA decide that it does not meet the restrictions of EAB and you would be in experimental exhibition and that category does have many restrictions on it. There are very few shops that have the skills and equipment to do that type of work. but lets face it, with some aircraft, if you want one that is the only way your going to get one. other such as a mustang, there are real ones available for what it would cost you to build one or less.

Robert Burns