MAAM P-61 August '13 Update

[TAdan]

I noticed the MAAM has updated their Black Widow restoration pictures earlier this month. Looks like the progress is being made, slowly but surely.

See the link below.

http://www.maam.org/p61/p61_rest_latest.htm

[Chappie]

Those night vision binoculars are fascinating. That is quite a bit of damage to the wing, that won't buff out too easy.

Chappie

[wendovertom]

Awesome! It really is too bad that there are not more of this type that survived and could be brought back to flying status.

Tom P.

[Warbird Kid]

Awesome! It really is too bad that there are not more of this type that survived and could be brought back to flying status.

Tom P.

To me... the future are full reproductions. Reproduction of parts for the powerplant and airframe alike. One only needs to look at what the classic car industry does. Multiple aftermarket shops that produce specific new-build parts. While aircraft have waaaaay higher tolerances and regulations, it's my hope that we'll be seeing whole new fuselages, wings, engines, and everything in-between.

[shrike]

To me... the future are full reproductions. Reproduction of parts for the powerplant and airframe alike. One only needs to look at what the classic car industry does. Multiple aftermarket shops that produce specific new-build parts. While aircraft have waaaaay higher tolerances and regulations, it's my hope that we'll be seeing whole new fuselages, wings, engines, and everything in-between.

Which would be fantastic, except the classic car industry doesn't have to satisfy the vagaries of massive bureaucracies on manufacture, maintenance and operation.

[wendovertom]

I have thought that you could make an awesome COIN turboprop version of the P-61 - put in a serious EA warfare suite in the radio operators space and go for it!

Tom P.

[Iclo]

I don't know if the full scale reproduction have a future. What project of WWII replica was a real success, without a lot of overcost or certification troubles ?
Not sure how the U.S. owners of FW190 feels but on the our side of the Atlantic ocean, I'm not sure it's a success : the french one ended in a splash of salt water when its propeller failed and forced the pilot to a forced landing and the Uk one was never cleared by the CAA, etc.

And about the Me-262 reproduction ?

Just my 0,2 cents.

Last edited by Iclo on Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Warbird Kid]

Yak 3 production run? Looks like there still producing those.

[Rob Mears]

I think you're right TriangleP. All of the technologies needed to fabricate most any particular warbird from scratch already exist. As long as there are factory drawings available via the Smithsonian or somewhere, and preferably a surviving example for physical reference, the one limiting factor remaining is cubic dollars. With the massive rise in warbird value we've witnessed over the last 20 years, I think the cap on the value of a particular type will ultimately be set by the actual cost it takes to reproduce one from scratch. Until we reach that point, costs will continue to escalate, and will escalate still beyond that for original surviving examples.

I remember $150,000 Corsairs back in the day - the price of a decent house, and I actually thought I might be able to buy one when I grew up! Never in my life did I imagine I'd see $3,000,000 Corsairs on the block, but that's where they are at the moment. There are a handful of old Corsair data plates floating around out there, and more than a couple of fabricators whom I feel could successfully scratch build an example pretty much from scratch. As soon as the market will bear it and someone's has the finances to give it a whirl, I have no doubt we'll see it happen. We've already reached that point with Mustangs, Spitfires, A6M Zeros, FW-190s, Mosquitoes, Me-262's, Yak-3s, etc. If only someone could fabricate and certify a scratch built DB-601/5 engine, the warbird world could have a heyday with the Bf-109, BF-110, Do-215, Kawasaki Ki-60/61, Heinkel He-100,Macchi C.205, etc!

[DaveM2]

Would be very interesting to hear from someone at Vintage Radials describe the whole process to resurrect the BMW 801 for Allen's Fw190. Certification of an exact reproduction would be expensive, but the resources a few of these guys have would make it happen.

Mike Nixon (Vintage V-12s) described working on the Allen BMW 801 in quite a lot of technical detail in the second part of our article on this aircraft (Issue 80). Actually it got a bit too technical and I had to get our engineer to simplify parts of it

Dave

[Chappie]

I agree with Rob and TriangleP about reproductions, although I'm not sure I could get excited about a 100% reproduction WWII aircraft. Personally I'd like to see a certain percentage of the aircraft original. Not sure what number I could put on it though.

What I would like to see is the numerous flyable original warbirds sitting static like in Palm Springs and Kalamazoo (??) returned to the sky and replaced with repos.

Chappie

[kalamazookid]

I agree with Rob and TriangleP about reproductions, although I'm not sure I could get excited about a 100% reproduction WWII aircraft. Personally I'd like to see a certain percentage of the aircraft original. Not sure what number I could put on it though.

What I would like to see is the numerous flyable original warbirds sitting static like in Palm Springs and Kalamazoo (??) returned to the sky and replaced with repos.

Chappie

I would rather see these aircraft back in the air before any reproduction of any type is made. Remember when the Oscar replicas were the next big thing? How many have been completed, two? And one is static?

[N77657]

I was under the impression that most, if not all, of the P-51's now flying were reproductions except for the data plate, engine, prop, etc. Is there any P-51 airframe (not including the engine, prop, etc.) out there that is more than say 50% original?

[sandiego89]

I was under the impression that most, if not all, of the P-51's now flying were reproductions except for the data plate, engine, prop, etc. Is there any P-51 airframe (not including the engine, prop, etc.) out there that is more than say 50% original?

With @300 surviving P-51's and well over 100 "flying" I do not think your impression is correct. While some flyers have indeed been near data plate reproductions, there are many that have a very high original parts content. Many flyers came from central america and other smaller air forces where they were still in service or recently retired, not wreck rebulids, so they have many orginal componatns. No where near "all" IIRC

[alang]

Paul Allen's P-51 came from active duty in Central America and was restored by Westpac.