Howard DGA-15p

[DocThrock]

I'm contemplating getting a Howard DGA-15P that started life in '44 as a Navy GH3. Looking for any pictures and information with regard to military livery and use at the end of the war. There are some beautiful civilian restored aircraft, but very few military restorations, and apparently not a whole lot of military Howard information on the net. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Last edited by DocThrock on Sat May 18, 2013 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[Mark Allen M]

Good looking airplane, best of luck to you. Here's a few quick google search photos that these fellas have posted elsewhere. There are many vintage DGA-18 civilian photos out there as well.
Found here: http://www.sedonalegendhelenfrye.com/1954.html
and more info here: http://howardaircraft.org/DGA_15.htm



Photo states "unknown Navy base April 1943"


I believe the band, stripes and cowling are green.


Photo states USN Howard Aircraft DGA 18 Navy Trainer 249233 and Howard NH1 (1943). Not quite sure on this one, could be all Navy blue with a green band?


Howard GH-2 Nightingale, August 30, 1943. Looks to be a three tone Navy scheme.


And this one is certainly attractive but not sure how authentic. Not my area of expertise.

Last edited by Mark Allen M on Sat May 18, 2013 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[The Inspector]

You can go to AEROFILES and find the BUNO's for GH-3 'NIGHTINGALES' and cross with Baughers US Navy/MARINES s/ns lists. Most seem to have been basically station hacks or tranportation for the Admiral. Several had a third set of flight controls in the back seat and were instrument trainers, you might look closely for evidence of removed brackets in the backseat area. HMMMMMMM......

[JohnB]

Post 1943, the green band means the aircraft is an instrument trainer.

[Taigh Ramey]

I have been contemplating selling a Howard GH-2 project I have. It is one of those old airplane in a barn stories that turned out to be true.



Built 11-29-1943 and has 500 flying time hours since it was new. It could have flown out of that barn. The wings were rebuilt but after deskinning they were perfect inside. They are ready for cover. All surfaces are nice as is the rest of the aircraft. The fuselage is untouched and bone stock as it came from the factory with a few exceptions. It was originally an ambulance aircraft so they took the two original single attendants seats and made them into one bench seat for three in the back. The original litter stowage and lifting brackets are still in place.

One of the things I like the most about this Howard is it still has all of its factory WWII radios in place namely the ATA/ARA command radio system which is the Navy forerunner to the ARC-5 and is basically compatible with the Army's SCR-274N set. Quite a collectors radio set today and yet this Howard has it all still installed from the factory. It even had the leather strap headphones and microphone hanging in the cockpit.



It does have one avionics upgrade that was a modification at some point. It has a SCR-269G radio compass installed on the floor in the rear compartment. This radio was used by the Navy in WWII (same in our Harpoon) but it would interfere with the lower litter so it wasn't factory but could have been later Navy install of from its brief civilian career. Even though it is a modification to the radio system it is still a WWII radio.

Other mods were that it has had the 1 1/2 minute flares and launch tubes removed but it still has the original flare control panel installed. It has also had the aft fuel tank removed but I have since found one from a GH-3 that is close and can be modified to the correct capacity.

The engine was replaced once and it has 300 hours since it was built new. Gotta be one of the lowest time original Pratt & Whitney 985's in existance. It is beautiful enough that it would probably start right up. Just add oil and fuel.

Some of us authenticity nerds love aircraft like this because it is full of factory original safety wire (even on the hose clamps), friction tape with waxed linen cord holding it in place and tons of other cool original items that mostly have been lost to time. The Navy blue leather seat covers on the pilots seats provide a perfect pattern for recreating a stitch for stitch replacement. It really ius a time capsule and it is almost wrong to restore it because it is so original and has been beautifully preserved in that barn for so long.

All of the log books and docs came with but sadly no military records except for the war assets administration sale sheet. One cool thing is according to the War Assets doc it was sold surplus out of Eagle Field in Dos Palos, California. Joe Davis and his son Ryan keep Eagle Field as a working WWII airbase today. Joe brought out a pile of documents that he found still stowed there and he found the copy of the same exact War Assets document that was in this Howards records. What are the odds that those two pages created at the same place and time are still in existence. Like I said it is the Warbird nerd in those of us who get all giddy over crap and minutia like this.

I have intended to fix her up someday and I will eventually but I have given thought recently to selling her to someone who would appreciate the aircraft for her original military history and not just want to change her into their personal custom Howard like so many others. As mentioned above most all of the Howards in existence today are ex military aircraft but only three or four have military markings on them.

When I first picked up this GH-2 I remember talking to a prominent Howard Club member who asked me what color I was going to paint it. When I responded with the original US Navy tri color scheme of Sea Blue, Intermediate Blue and white it was as though I had slapped her. She was aghast that I would even think of painting a Howard in such colors. She tried hard to convince me that Maroon was the most popular color but it fell on deaf ears. Quite the interesting reaction.

Anyway, this Howard certainly is special and she quietly awaits the day when she will return to her former glory. Hopefully with me but if not I will certainly find someone who will respect her history and original near factory condition.

[The Inspector]

Taigh,
question, what is that kinda ercoupey/SWIFTISH looking aircraft in front of your HOWARD? There's a tiny bell ringing in the back of my memory....................................

[Jerry O'Neill]

Looks like a Ryan SC in the foreground!

[The Inspector]

Looks like a Ryan SC in the foreground!

Thanks Jerry! Knew it rang a bell, there's one in the Northwest I've seen it @ local airshows. The extra spine opening (window?) was what was throwing me-

[Tiger Tim]

I'd guess the little guy in front of the Howard is an Emigh Trojan. Maybe it's missing the engine since the tail is so low.

-Tim

[Taigh Ramey]

I have no idea what the little machine is, I will leave that to you all.

My eyes gravitate toward the WWII Jeep trailer and the air compressor. Gotta love ground support equipment.

[Chris Brame]

Sorry about the X; the slide was in a pile of stuff that came from an estate and it was the only shot I have. I believe it's in CA, late '60s. Hope it's some help.

[corsair166b]

I can't speak to owning a Howard, but I can relate experiences in one.....if the Howard you are considering buying is the yellow one with green bands, it used to live here in Colorado near the Springs at Meadowlake airport and was owned by a couple of local warbird operators, Jerry Flesher and Whitey Wannemacher. It was a fun plane to have around and very utilitarian, T-6 speed and carried 5 people and baggage......one time returning from an airshow in Oklahoma we stopped in Liberal, KS for fuel and the T-6's we were flying with formed up for a show off pass down the runway before break to landing.....unbeknownst to the T-6 guys, we had slid into their 6 o'clock position while they made their pass except WE landed in the DGA, slowed, skidded around the corner, sped over to the ramp, threw everything out of the plane and set up camp like we'd been living there for a week! When the first of the T-6's approached the ramp after they had landed (I'm sure a good number of you remember David Fain and his red and silver T-6 'C150') he just shook his head and laughed, as did the rest of the T-6 gang when they followed behind Dave. They had assumed we were somewhere WAY back behind them flying to Liberal but the whole time we had been right with them.....so that speaks to the capability of the DGA. Sadly, Jerry and Whitey traded the DGA to some folks from Minnesota if I recall for a C-45, but we had a lot of fun in that bird, too.....

If you get it, you will be getting (assuming it is still well maintained)....a darn Good Airplane.

Mark

[M-62A]

"USN Howard Aircraft DGA 18 Navy Trainer 249233 and Howard NH1 (1943)."

The trainer in the background is, of course, a Fairchild PT-23 - probably one of the 350 built by Howard. The i/d "249233" is a PT-23-HO serial.

The DGA-18 looked quite different and I am not convinced the US Navy bought any. Approximately 60 were built for the Civil Pilot Training program but I think that was all.

The U.S. Navy GH and NH were derivatives of the Howard DGA-15 - not the DGA-18.

That said, the DGA-15/GH would be a very worthwhile porject.

Hope this helps, M-62A

[DocThrock]

Yes thanks for the correction. I keep saying 18 and I know they are 15Ps. Post and topic corrected. Anyway still interested in more information stories and pics.

"USN Howard Aircraft DGA 18 Navy Trainer 249233 and Howard NH1 (1943)."

The trainer in the background is, of course, a Fairchild PT-23 - probably one of the 350 built by Howard. The i/d "249233" is a PT-23-HO serial.

The DGA-18 looked quite different and I am not convinced the US Navy bought any. Approximately 60 were built for the Civil Pilot Training program but I think that was all.

The U.S. Navy GH and NH were derivatives of the Howard DGA-15 - not the DGA-18.

That said, the DGA-15/GH would be a very worthwhile porject.

Hope this helps, M-62A

[elliotblock]

Chris,

The airplane that you have a slide of looks like N5553N. It is based at SMO and I believe it's for sale.

EB