P-38 429th FS, 474th FG, 9AF markings

[Canso42]

Ive been given a P-38J model (Revell 1/48) for Christmas and though it's got decals etc for top ace Maj. Richard Bong, I want to finish in the markings of a deceased acquaintance, P-38 combat veteran Lt. Charlie Manning. Y'all may remember that three years ago this month I posted a gone west notice for him.
Charlie was "over the beach" on D-Day, shooting up ground targets behind the beach head. I have illustrations of how the invasion stripes were configured on Lightnings but cant find a profile of June 44 markings for the 429. Their sqn mark was a red triangle and tail markings were "7Y" but I'd like to see more. How big was the red triangle, what color were spinners and cowls and that sort of thing?
I've sent a post to the P-38 assoc. but am covering all bets. If it cant be searched out by WIXers, it aint there.
Happy holidays, everyone,
Doug Ratchford, 'canso42'

[Mark Allen M]

Doug a quick Google search found this example. No invasion stripes and a white triangle though.


P-38J-10-LO
Unit: 429th FS, 474th FG, 9th AF, USAAF
Serial: 7Y-X (42-68118)
Pilot - 2nd Lt Hermann Q. Lane. He was operating on May 7th, 1944 over Charleville-Mezieres area.

[Canso42]

Thanks Mark, that's a good start with insignia placement and style, not to mention O/D vs. NMF.

[Dan Johnson II]

It would not have been a red triangle. It would have been white on OD birds, and black on NMF. The historian for the 474th FG Association posts here occasionally. His Dad was in the 474th. I'd think he'd be along soon enough and have more then enough info to help you

[Canso42]

Thanks Dan, that fills in some more gaps and pretty well nails down the illustration already posted. I got the red triangle info from the 474th website but that is apparently in error. I've seen a NMF one but its a late summer 45 and a J-25. Charlies bunch flew the -5 and -10 LO birds.

[Canso42]

I'd like to get in contact with the 474th assoc. guy. My email is Ratch4@yahoo.com

[Canso42]

I talked to Don today and he's seen a wartime photo of Lt. Manning with his a/c at one of the P-38 reunions he took Charlie to. Green it is. If I can get in contact with the 474th assoc. I may be able to find an individual a/c letter for him. Basically, that's all I need.
Thanks everyone!

[eagle0025]

Hello Doug, Finally got a chance to go online after a busy holiday season when I caught your 474th Fighter Group post. I would be happy to provide whatever information i have about Charlie Manning and the 474th. I was privileged to have met Charlie at the 474th reunion in Omaha a few years ago. What a sweet guy! Also need to clear up a couple of things for you. First, Charlie was with the 428th Fighter Squadron, not the 429th Fighter Squadron. Second, Charlie never flew over the D Day beaches as he first reported to the unit on April 5, 1945 with a group of 6 replacement pilots. He flew his first combat mission on April 15, 1945 and his final combat mission on May 8, 1945. I can email you copies of the mission reports that flew on if you like. I will be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
Cheers, Gary Koch (474th FG Association Historian)

[Canso42]

Gary, thanks for the clarification, as I have gotten all this info third hand. What markings and colors would his aircraft have had in the 428th?

[eagle0025]

Having arrived late in the war, Charlie would have likely flown a P-38J-25, L-1, or L-5 model. They would have been natural metal with no invasion stripes. There would have been a black square on the outside of each tail fin covering up the serial number. The first and last digits of the serial number often stuck out on either side of the square. The 428th FS code "F5" would be on the outside of each tail boom, immediately behind the coolant radiators. The individual aircraft letter would be on the inside of each tail fin and on the outer coolant radiator housing. Sometimes the last three or four digits of the serial number would be on each side of the nose. Also, some 474th P-38s had the very tip of the nose, propeller spinners, and front of the intercooler/oil cooler intake painted in squadron colors. The 428th FS would have been a dark blue. This often shows up as black in many of my old 428th FS photos. However, the application of squadron colors often varied according to individual aircraft. Hope this helps.
Cheers, Gary

[Dan Johnson II]

A bit like this, but I saw black in the photo instead of dark blue when I did it!

Lloyd Wenzel's J-25

[DarkWolf]

Hi,

I don't mean to butt in but I'm curious about the 474th FG's squadron colors. If the 428th was dark blue, what were the colors for the other two squadrons? Red for the 429th and yellow for the 430th?

DW

[Canso42]

Dark Wolf, welcome to WIX and please see the second post, above for the 429th.

[DarkWolf]

Yes I've seen that profile and I've come across it in my searching the net, but I've also seen profiles that show aircraft coded 7Y with light blue spinners. Though oddly enough despite the 7Y the caption reads 428th FS. It's kinda confused me and I'm not sure how much stock to put in those profiles. You chaps seem to know alot so I was hoping for a definitive confirmation on the colors.

DW

[ajax]

Hello, I'm new to the WIX. I've got direct family connections to the 428th FS in WWII. I'm interested in contacting Gary Koch of the 474th association. Please send to ajax.trueblood@gmail.com