Outstanding early B-17 detail

[Mark Allen M]

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Last edited by Mark Allen M on Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

[pjpahs]

Another great set of photos. I seen some B-17's didn't have ball turrets, were early versions I guess. Photo #14 showed the ground crew turning props and looks like they are going backwards or the negative was reversed. Photo #15 shows correct as to prop form to rotation. Can't read the print on the props on photo #14 to see if it is reversed.Seen the guy trying to get into the ball turret. At Benton Harbor a couple weeks ago the YAM B-17 was there and had the hatch open as the photo and WOW what a tight fit!! I admire and am thankfull for the men who flew in these aircraft. After further review I believe the negative was reversed, look at the engines on photo's 14-15 a round disc on top of engine where the prop exits the reduction faces a diff. direction on each photo.

Last edited by pjpahs on Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[The Inspector]

Both E models from the same batch.

Photo #1 'who eating pickled pigs feet back there?'

The double panes on the sliders were to prevent fogging of the windows.

Love the Mohair in the nose compartment.

412540, l/n 2351, with 7th B.G. wrecked/ demolished in Guatemala 1/8/42 while re enforcing FEAF.

412572 l/n 2383 Delivered to McDill 2/17/42, xfrd to Sarasota 6/25/42, then xfrd to Westover 6/28/42. Assigned to 306th B.G., 396th B.S. Xfrd to Wendover 7/14/42, back to Westover 8/11/42, xfrd to Sebring 9/24/42 then to Bolling 1/12/43 xfrd to Hendricks 4/29/43. Reclaimed/scrapped 1/29/46.
Several of the ground shots are flipped, access hatches on the wrong side of the airplane, 'NO SMOKING' on hanger wall is backwards-

[gemmer]

Another great set of photos. I seen some B-17's didn't have ball turrets, were early versions I guess. Photo #14 showed the ground crew turning props and looks like they are going backwards or the negative was reversed. Photo #15 shows correct as to prop form to rotation. Can't read the print on the props on photo #14 to see if it is reversed.Seen the guy trying to get into the ball turret. At Benton Harbor a couple weeks ago the YAM B-17 was there and had the hatch open as the photo and WOW what a tight fit!! I admire and am thankfull for the men who flew in these aircraft. After further review I believe the negative was reversed, look at the engines on photo's 14-15 a round disc on top of engine where the prop exits the reduction faces a diff. direction on each photo.

The serial numbers on the a/c without ball turrets fall within the range that should have been equipped with them, rather than the Sperry remote. I'd guess that there was a shortage of turrets at that time, being relatively new and priority was given to a/c going to combat theaters.

Duane

[bilwor]

Photo #27 of the crewman holding the door for the bombardier is printed in reverse. The door is on the right side of the B-17.

This does not take away for some more great photos

thanks
bill word

[Mark Allen M]

Photo #27 of the crewman holding the door for the bombardier is printed in reverse.

Yes Bill I've been seeing some of you guys point this out in several of these LIFE photo threads, sorry about that, I guess if I knew how to distinguish whether the print was reversed I could have photoshoped it to the correct side.

[The Inspector]

Photo #27 of the crewman holding the door for the bombardier is printed in reverse.

Yes Bill I've been seeing some of you guys point this out in several of these LIFE photo threads, sorry about that, I guess if I knew how to distinguish whether the print was reversed I could have photoshoped it to the correct side.

A quick check is look at whats around the subject and see if the lettering looks English or Russian, if the fuel truck has ENILOSAG painted on the side that's a strong hint Waiting for the next installment-

[Warbird Kid]

Love the Mohair in the nose compartment.

I noticed that too. I've never heard of this fiber before. Was it used extensively in aircraft during WWII?

[Mark Allen M]

If your talking about what looks to be fabric insulation in the nose compartment .... +1 noticed that as well. Looks to make for a warm compartment ... and yes I need to be a little more observant of words/lettering in the background

[The Inspector]

Love the Mohair in the nose compartment.

I noticed that too. I've never heard of this fiber before. Was it used extensively in aircraft during WWII?

MOHAIR was the primary upholstery material in 99.999% of cars built from the mid 1920's through the mid-ish 50's when it was discovered that it only took the hides of 35 Naugas to do the interior of a Chevrolet or Ford.
It's woven sheep outer covering (wool) and was actually a 'strategic material' during the war, and up until just a few years ago the production of it was legislatively protected until it was brought out in a Congressional hearing about doing away with the law, that the nation had enough mohair on hand in stock to reupholster the entire continent. It's fairly waterproof, wears like steel sheet, and has a nice, warm effect on the sitter, and was a cheap sound deadener.
So the next time you newer types look at the interior of a 50 Chevy or Plymouth sedan at a car show, you'll know what that buff tan soft fabric on the seats, doors, and headliner is.
Mohair jackets and sweaters keep you toasty and dry in the Winter (they are wool and very light), and might score you some 'ATTABOYS' with your significant other

[lmritger]

Mark, I've been trawling the LIFE archives since almost the day they went online back in late 2008, and have (as of tonight), over 3700 photos saved from those archives on my hard drive. I gotta say, while I have previously found and saved the vast majority of what you've been posting, it's great to see someone else ferreting out these gems- I know I found some incredible stuff using some pretty bizarre search terms.

Consider this a hearty "well done" and "keep it up"... glad to see you sharing this stuff with everyone!

Lynn

[Bomberboy]

Photo #14 showed the ground crew turning props and looks like they are going backwards or the negative was reversed. Photo #15 shows correct as to prop form to rotation.

Photo #14 is indeed reversed and photo #15 is not.
That said, sometimes the props on radials have to be turned backwards, rightly or wrongly, to help clear any oil, where as to keep going forwards when clearly the engine does not want to, is likely to cause the very damage you are trying to prevent by pulling them through in the first place.

[Mark Allen M]

Mark, I've been trawling the LIFE archives since almost the day they went online back in late 2008, and have (as of tonight), over 3700 photos saved from those archives on my hard drive. I gotta say, while I have previously found and saved the vast majority of what you've been posting, it's great to see someone else ferreting out these gems- I know I found some incredible stuff using some pretty bizarre search terms.

Consider this a hearty "well done" and "keep it up"... glad to see you sharing this stuff with everyone!

Lynn

Good morning Lynn, thank you very kindly, at least I know there are people who like these threads, and your all welcome who have PM'ed me as well. Good stuff. There's some great folks here on WIX but unfortunately for me it only takes a couple of trolls to piss me off and ruin it. Some fool yesterday finally explained by his posts and PM's what the definition of "troll" really means. The idiots who come here and try to ruin it for the good ones is just a part of internet forums I guess. It's time for someone else to take over from here. I'm done. I won't give those two clowns the satisfaction of getting me banned.

BTW Lynn you are certainly correct, you sometimes have to be very imaginative with the search terms you must use to dig deep in the LIFE archives. Interesting what you can find though.

Mark

Last edited by Mark Allen M on Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[bombadier29]

That said, sometimes the props on radials have to be turned backwards, rightly or wrongly, to help clear any oil, where as to keep going forwards when clearly the engine does not want to, is likely to cause the very damage you are trying to prevent by pulling them through in the first place.

Turning the prop backwards on any radial engine will not clear a hydraulic lock. All it does is pull the slug of oil back into the intake tube and it wil come back to haunt you. You will not clear a hydraulic lock completely without pulling a plug and draining the oil. If you pull the prop backwards and manage to time it just right, the oil might just make it out the exhaust valve. The problem is that you never know if the oil has left by way of the exhaust pipe or if it is still waiting in the intake to do some damage. Puling the prop forward to clear the lock isn't going to help because something is going to give. And it won't be the oil. I've seen a few times when a person thought they had a hydraulic lock and cleared it by pulling the prop through forward and they said the oil must have seeped past the valves. It doesn't work that way. Most times that a person had a compression lock, confused it for a hydraulic one and managed to clear it by pulling the prop harder. That gave the mistaken impression that they had cleared the hydraulic lock.

[pjpahs]

NO NO NO, I didn't say you could pull prop's backward, I've asked this question before and know better!!! I just observed that what looks like a backward pull was the negative reversed.