Title 10 Warbird Threat

[gunnyperdue]

Guys-

This is a real threat to warbirds, but in particular the B-29 Fifi. Everyone needs to pitch in now!

Here's the important point... Title 10 does not require a vote of congress to enact what is essentially law...... we have to flood this member's email/ fax/ phone with protests... and everyone on committee. ASAP.

The airplanes this fellow is pursuing are owned by the people and supported by the people.... It takes millions of dollars of donated money to keep these airplanes flying and by doing that millions of people get to see the airplanes up close and get to share the experience. They are where they need to be, in front of the public, not in a dusty museum hidden away from the vast majority of the American public that wants to see them. By supporting them the public has voted that they want to see them in their neighborhoods, please help keep these airplanes flying!

Be logical, to the point but send your feelings now. Here is a place where you can find out who to call: http://capwiz.com/saveourbenefit/dbq/officials/

--------------------
Gunny

[51fixer]

Also covered in this thread-
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45285

[P51Mstg]

Assuming the bill involves future transfers, then exactly how would it affect FIFI or the warbird I own in my hangar?

Mark H

[oscardeuce]

Assuming the bill involves future transfers, then exactly how would it affect FIFI or the warbird I own in my hangar?

Mark H

Camel...nose...tent

This kind of stuff comes up every year.

Depressing our gov't trusts terrorist more than the People.

I have to sign a declaration stating I am not supporting terrorism before the State of Ohio will take my money to register my warbird. Our gov't is thinking of giving billions of tax dollars to the Muslim Brotherhood?


Thinking of selling the plane while it is still worth something.

[gale_dono]

Assuming the bill involves future transfers, then exactly how would it affect FIFI or the warbird I own in my hangar?

Mark H

Camel...nose...tent

This kind of stuff comes up every year.

Depressing our gov't trusts terrorist more than the People.

I have to sign a declaration stating I am not supporting terrorism before the State of Ohio will take my money to register my warbird. Our gov't is thinking of giving billions of tax dollars to the Muslim Brotherhood?

Thinking of selling the plane while it is still worth something.

I'm failing to see what Egypt has to do with any of this. It's a misguided attempt by someone in Congress without a full estimation of the facts, ie, nothing especially new.

[oscardeuce]

Assuming the bill involves future transfers, then exactly how would it affect FIFI or the warbird I own in my hangar?

Mark H

Camel...nose...tent

This kind of stuff comes up every year.

Depressing our gov't trusts terrorist more than the People.

I have to sign a declaration stating I am not supporting terrorism before the State of Ohio will take my money to register my warbird. Our gov't is thinking of giving billions of tax dollars to the Muslim Brotherhood?

Thinking of selling the plane while it is still worth something.

I'm failing to see what Egypt has to do with any of this. It's a misguided attempt by someone in Congress without a full estimation of the facts, ie, nothing especially new.

Agreed

These bills come up almost every year.

It is the attitude of our gov't respecting the outside entities more than its own citizens.

[gunnyperdue]

"These bills come up almost every year.

It is the attitude of our gov't respecting the outside entities more than its own citizens."

This is true... but what I found out is that to make "law' Changes to Title 10 it does not have to be voted on by Congress and signed by the President (Thanks to the 2009 congress for this gem).

We've still got to respond to this each time it comes up.

thanks,
gunny

[RickH]

Title 10 is just part of the US Code that consolidate the laws the govt operates by. Title 10 is for Armed Forces.

The language submitted is an amendment to the House Armed Services Defense Authorization Bill for 2013. It would amend the existing Title 10 Section 2572.

It does have to go through Congress to amend the law.

[P51Mstg]

Back to basic football here........

I READ.... The DOD says FIFI is safe since the agreement is pretty well worded. (unlike the P-82 situation). As long as CAF doesn't do anything STUPID like try to trade her off, she should be OK....

Other WWII or Korean era birds are pretty much owned outright and can't be taken back.

There are Korean War jets on sticks out there that the GOVT still owns in front of the local VFW, and they are not going to fliers ever.

There is the Collings Foundation who managed to get their F-4 and some parts out, through a special act of Congress. I'd guess if that opportunity ever arose again, Congress could authorize Collings or a similar group a jet.... Seeing what they went through and the furor it caused, I don't see that happening. I don't know the status of spares from the govt for the Phantom (Rick??) but I'd say they're probably aren't going to be any coming (considering the problems they had getting the spare engine(s) they were authorized). But a Phantom should have spares available on the world market if you need them (and of course if you can import them legally (remember the Skyraider and filling out forms))....

But the Feds probably never intended (as the DOD states) to let any more combat aircraft into the civilian market and this pretty much codifies this. It may go a step further and keep transports from being sold as surplus (with the C-130 firebomber fiasco, that probably isn't going to happen either). Taking into consideration the lack of interest in seeing transports at airshows and the cost of operating big birds, that shouldn't hurt the warbird situation.

It will probably do more for restricting helicopters than anything else. No more real transfers of choppers to state and local govt, who may fly them until they break and then sell them. So the local govts aren't going to take the choppers now (they'll take anything thats free if they can sell it later for any amount of money)..... So no more O-58s, Hueys, or Cobras (which were pretty rare anyways).

In the end, how is this going to really affect the average T-6/P-51/B-25 owner? I just don't see it? I don't even see it affecting the MIG17/21 or other jet owners either.

Other than political thoughts what is the real practical impact of this law?

Mark H

[RickH]

Our deed of gift gives us an aircraft. ONE each. An agreement was reached in 1998, and money exchanged hands for 4 spare excess J-79-15s. When it came time to pull one of the earmarked engines, new USAF personnel stated that the previous USAF individuals were not authorized to execute said contract. They kept the money. The replacement engine, ( that replaced the fodded engine) was privately sourced and funded.

To further set the record straight, we have NEVER received any USAF spares. All spares used to keep this aircraft flying have been sourced from privately held inventory. The USAF continues to say that we cannot support the aircraft without their help. We are actually keeping these aircraft flying in spite of their actions.

[Randy Haskin]

The USAF continues to say that we cannot support the aircraft without their help. We are actually keeping these aircraft flying in spite of their actions.

Rick, does the Foundation have any sort of PR effort to make this point more, shall we say, pointed? I bet it's something the public who sees the Phantom fly would find very interesting.

[oscardeuce]

The law only affects the jets....I did nothing
The law only affects the helicopters....I did nothing
The law only affects the cargo planes....I did nothing
The law only affects bombers....I did nothing
The law ony affects.... P-51's ....wait that's me!

Seems to me this has happened in the past.

Step 1 folks, step 1.

Glad I sold the Hueys

[RickH]

No, Randy, we've tried to answer the accusations about coming back to the USAF for parts. That language is always seems to come up, it's a lot like the question " when did you stop beating your wife" ?

[T33driver]

Looks like the Ohio Congressman is getting some vigorous input and feedback from constituents angry over Title 10 and then some...keep the pressure on, keep calling. Word is, his office was rejecting emails from outside his district so pick up the telly and call. Based on his statement, specifically the reference to jet warbirds, it is obvious he has no clue what he's talking about and is merely parroting talking points from some in DoD who are against civilian jet warbirds flying. I don't fault him for being ignorant about aviation and warbirds, but I do expect him to get well informed on an issue before he sponsors legislation that limits freedom of any kind. As someone who is a USAF trained pilot and currently flies jet warbirds, I can assure the good Congressman that non-military pilots can be more than adequately trained to safely and competently operate these aircraft. Obviously what we need is a more rigorous, in-depth training and indoctrination process for Congressman whose backgrounds as Mayors of small cities, dog catchers in Mayberry, litigators in Green Acres and lack of training in Constitutional Law leave them woefully ill-equipped and underqualified to competently and properly discharge their duties as a Congressman without carelessly, recklessly jeopardizing the liberties of their constituents in general, talking out of their a$$ about things, jet warbird in this case, that they are not qualified to screw a fuel cap on.

Word of advice to the good Congressman: Stop wasting our tax dollars diddling with liberty-crushing eyewash do-nothing bu11sh1t legislative tinkering and focus on solving real problems like our crushing national debt financed by our BFFs in China. Seems you've been stricken with the contagious Beltway Fever so go back and read the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the writings of Thomas Jefferson! John Adams and Alexander Hamilton and rediscover what it is you're supposed to be doing and more importantly NOT doing as a Congressman.

http://turner.house.gov/News/DocumentSi ... tID=291907

[ME108 Taifun]

EAA (Thank God!) is reporting the issue as "dead." http://www.eaa.org/news/2012/2012-04-24_warbirds.asp