Related question - USAAF Enlisted men's Class A uniform

[Jollygreenslugg]

G'day folks,

A warbird-related question relating to ETO-based enlisted men. Was a leather belt worn over the service jacket of the Class A winter uniform? The officer's Class A jacket has an attached belt of the same (or similar) material as the jacket, but the EM's Class A jacket doesn't have a fitted belt. I've seen pre-war shots of enlisted men in Class As, with a leather belt over the jacket, much like the outer waist-belt of the Commonwealth Sam Browne belt, just without the shoulder strap. I'm just not sure about the practice in England from 1942 on.

Also, with the EM's Olive Drab shirt, trousers and jacket, what colour tie and cloth trouser-belt would be worn? Would khaki be acceptable?

These questions relate to a uniform being assembled for an historical display, as I'd like to get it as correct as possible. Thanks, any advice is appreciated.

Cheers,
Matt

[TonyM]

G'day folks,

A warbird-related question relating to ETO-based enlisted men. Was a leather belt worn over the service jacket of the Class A winter uniform? The officer's Class A jacket has an attached belt of the same (or similar) material as the jacket, but the EM's Class A jacket doesn't have a fitted belt. I've seen pre-war shots of enlisted men in Class As, with a leather belt over the jacket, much like the outer waist-belt of the Commonwealth Sam Browne belt, just without the shoulder strap. I'm just not sure about the practice in England from 1942 on.

Also, with the EM's Olive Drab shirt, trousers and jacket, what colour tie and cloth trouser-belt would be worn? Would khaki be acceptable?

These questions relate to a uniform being assembled for an historical display, as I'd like to get it as correct as possible. Thanks, any advice is appreciated.

Cheers,
Matt

There are actual WWII AAF enlisted men who participate in the forums at armyairforces.com . You might want to try over there in the uniform/equipment forum.
They are pretty smart over there. And they are friendly and ready to help.

Good luck.

TM

[Pathfinder]

If your intention is to do a typical ETO/UK USAAF EM display you should key on the "wartime" dress. The belted jacket you will find is pre-war and early war very early into 1942.

Jackets that would take the leather belt actually have brass hanger hooks in the waist. There was no "wear-out" period on the belted jackets. They could actually be worn into the period when the non-hooked jackets became available. The structural differences between the two are negligible...mostly pocket and flap shape. So subtle as to be unnoticeable. The newest hooked jacket in my collection is dated 1941.

The pants color does not MATCH the jacket . The shirt and pants will be more similar to each other in color. The color is referred to as MUSTARD. The jacket is OLIVE DRAB--which you all would call khaki.

The tie and belt would be what we call khaki...a medium tan color. About the shade of KD kit. The belt is essentially webbing. The buckle is open frame.

US and branch disks are one piece stamped. The two piece domed type are pre-war.

Piping on the overseas cap is "ultra-marine and orange". The cap will generally match the jacket.

Hope this helps.

[Forgotten Field]

The newest hooked jacket in my collection is dated 1941.

The contracts ran into 1942. You will also find coats with hooks removed. MP's and personnel who did parade or dress guard duty would still wear the Sam Brown Belt and shoulder strap. The PX also sold these hooks to put on your uniform in case you needed to wear a belt.

The pants color does not MATCH the jacket . The shirt and pants will be more similar to each other in color. The color is referred to as MUSTARD. The jacket is OLIVE DRAB--which you all would call khaki.

Pants and shirts are still OD. The jacket is also OD, just a different government numbered shade. The mustard color is a modern way to describe the items. Sometimes, all the colors match, but very rarely. I'll put a link later with more information.

The tie and belt would be what we call khaki...a medium tan color. About the shade of KD kit. The belt is essentially webbing. The buckle is open frame.

Also Olive Drab.
http://www.atthefrontshop.com/ProductDe ... ode=USUMTB
http://www.atthefrontshop.com/ProductDe ... ode=USUMNT

US and branch disks are one piece stamped. The two piece domed type are pre-war.

The two piece items were made before and after WWII. The doming was done by the individual owners to make their brass stand out more than somebody who had only flat brass- it was not factory produced. The single piece stampings were made as an economy item during the war- fewer industrial operations were required to make them, so they were cheaper and more efficient to make. You cannot easily make the one-piece ones into domed ones, but I have seen ones where somebody tried!

Piping on the overseas cap is "ultra-marine and orange". The cap will generally match the jacket.

The color is correct, but the caps were still OD. A soldier could also purchase a privately made cap with piping.
http://www.atthefrontshop.com/ProductDe ... de=USHCGCP
http://www.atthefrontshop.com/ProductDe ... de=USHCGCI

Rollin Curtis of At The Front does a lot of research before he makes his uniforms. With few exceptions, his stuff is extremely well researched and made. Poke around the website because there is a great deal of knowledge which he shares with the public, some of which took a lot of time to accomplish. Urban legends surrounding WWII are wide and deep (not at all like warbirds, right?) and Rollin seeks to dispel some of the myths.

I highly recommend picking up an FM 21-100, the Soldiers Handbook, from WWII. This manual is still issued, so make sure you get a WWII dated one. They show up on ebay for $10.00 or so. It shows you most of what you need to wear a WWII uniform completely, and has lots of other interesting information. I did a quick search and found a 1940 version of it on line.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24302178/FM-2 ... dbook-1940

[Jollygreenslugg]

G'day folks,

Thank you very much; you've answered my query and given me plenty of information to go on with.

If I was to build up a second display with another EM Class A jacket, could it represent an airman at the time of Pearl Harbor? I now understand that the leather belt would be appropriate for the period (as long as it was the correct type of jacket), but would an enlisted airman in Hawaii in December have had reason to wear the heavy Class A uniform? I'm thinking that a formal function on the Saturday night before the attack perhaps; would it be within the realm of possibility for an enlisted man to have 'dressed up and gone out' on a Saturday night? If I was to build up such a display, are there any further points that I should keep in mind?

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm reading as much as I can find.

Cheers,
Matt

[Pathfinder]

FF--

ATF as a source of information is okay--but not perfect. If you don't know Rollin his writing style can appear somewhat condescending to potential buyers. I know Rollin and his company. I have provided him with product.

His piping chart has a conspicuous error where it states that the Air Corps color is Yellow and Blue. Those are the colors of the Chemical Corps. AAF is correctly Ultramarine and Golden Orange.

For JollyGreen's museum display I would recommend that he acquire original material rather than repro in order to avoid these little problems of colorization.