Corsair question

[whistlingdeath77]

Hey guys, have a 3 part question that i know some of you would know about. The topic is Chance-Vought during ww2 when it was in Stratford,CT. Did Vought ever have any type of gun installations for anti-aircraft defense? If so, is there any photo's of this existing?

Second question is about the possibility of any Elco or Higgins PT Boats patrolling around the coastal waters of the company for any type of defense from the ocean.( German Subs etc.)

Third question is about a squadron of aircraft that was based in Stratford to protect the company from any other threats. I believe they used P-39 Aircobras and P-47 thunderbolts to do this job. But the question of mine would be why would they not use a squadron of Corsairs from the plant to do that job. Knowing that all parts and pilots were right there, I would have assumed that the F4U would have done the job if need be. Thoughts or answers? thanks guys!

[shrike]

Part three is the easiest to answer. The USAAF had the squadron nearby for protection, and the Army had no Corsairs*.
While Vought made fighters there, they would no more have had the authority to create a company squadron for plant protection, than Ford would have had to form their own Armored Battalion.



*Ok, they might have had a couple somewhere for testing, training, comparison et c., but not in squadron strength, OK? I can be as pedantic as the next guy<G>

[Jerry O'Neill]

Frank;
I don't know about any gun installations at the plant, but there were AA guns on East Rock overlooking the City of New Haven, so it might seem to be plausible.

I don't know about any patrol boats either, but the Coast Guard was certainly involved in coastal patrols and protection during the war.

The Air Corps fighters that were stationed at Stratford were not specifically for protection of the Vought Plant. There were several remote bases for the main Air Corps unit based at Bradley Field. They were also Stationed at Groton and Rentschler Field during the war. The Air Corps used the East Coast bases for P-47 training and readiness before each assigned squadron was sent overseas. The first Group stationed at Bradley was the 57th FG, (of the documentary "Thunderbolt" fame, & NEAM is home to the Groups archives). The three squadrons were based at the the remote fields for different periods of time. As a matter of fact, the Air corps left two P-47's in the waters off Groton Airport due to training accidents! Certainly these training squadrons would've been assigned patrol duties, but they weren't specifically stationed at Stratford for exclusive plant protection.

I hope it helps.
Jerry

[JDK]

Interesting third question. A 'manufacturers self protection squadron' that comes to mind would be Heinkel's unit of He 100s. (And, I see the earlier 112s)

The remaining 12 He 100 D-1 fighters were used to form Heinkel's Marienehe factory defense unit, flown by factory test pilots. They replaced the earlier He 112s that were used for the same purpose, and the 112s were later sold off. At this early stage in the war, there were no bombers venturing that far into Germany, and it appears that the unit never saw action. The eventual fate of the D-1s remains unknown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He ... al_history

In the case of the He 112 and 100s, these were aircraft the RLM didn't want. In the case of the Corsairs, the Navy (and allies) wanted all they could get, so keeping any back wasn't on the cards. Defending the area was an Air Corps / Army Air Force job, too, as has been said. Finally, as well as the reasons above, most factories didn't deliver the aircraft fully equipped; stuff like guns ammunition, radios and IFF was often not fitted or active - or available to civilians.

AFAIK, there were no factory self defence aircraft units in the UK, and they were attacked, unlike the lower 48's factories.

Anyone know any other 'factory fighter flights'?

Regards,

[51fixer]

Interesting third question. A 'manufacturers self protection squadron' that comes to mind would be Heinkel's unit of He 100s. (And, I see the earlier 112s)

The remaining 12 He 100 D-1 fighters were used to form Heinkel's Marienehe factory defense unit, flown by factory test pilots. They replaced the earlier He 112s that were used for the same purpose, and the 112s were later sold off. At this early stage in the war, there were no bombers venturing that far into Germany, and it appears that the unit never saw action. The eventual fate of the D-1s remains unknown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He ... al_history

In the case of the He 112 and 100s, these were aircraft the RLM didn't want. In the case of the Corsairs, the Navy (and allies) wanted all they could get, so keeping any back wasn't on the cards. Defending the area was an Air Corps / Army Air Force job, too, as has been said. Finally, as well as the reasons above, most factories didn't deliver the aircraft fully equipped; stuff like guns ammunition, radios and IFF was often not fitted or active - or available to civilians.

AFAIK, there were no factory self defence aircraft units in the UK, and they were attacked, unlike the lower 48's factories.

Anyone know any other 'factory fighter flights'?

Regards,

IIRC there were Spitfire factory pilots who were sent to gunnery school and the factories had a couple of armed Spits avail.
Might have been in Alex Henshaw's book I read this.

[JDK]

Interesting Rich. I'm sceptical, as they'd be useless without being netted into the early warning system and ground control and frankly, in the way of the units doing the fighter job. Some (most) Vickers test pilots were ex-RAF with gunnery experience anyway, I believe.

Given the rate of demand I can't see anyone allowing Spitfires to be sitting at the factory; and having ones under test ready as fighters in sequence also seems logistically tricky to say the least.

I'd have to say it sounds like a propaganda story to me. However, if anyone can provide evidence...!

[whistlingdeath77]

Frank;
I don't know about any gun installations at the plant, but there were AA guns on East Rock overlooking the City of New Haven, so it might seem to be plausible.

I don't know about any patrol boats either, but the Coast Guard was certainly involved in coastal patrols and protection during the war.

The Air Corps fighters that were stationed at Stratford were not specifically for protection of the Vought Plant. There were several remote bases for the main Air Corps unit based at Bradley Field. They were also Stationed at Groton and Rentschler Field during the war. The Air Corps used the East Coast bases for P-47 training and readiness before each assigned squadron was sent overseas. The first Group stationed at Bradley was the 57th FG, (of the documentary "Thunderbolt" fame, & NEAM is home to the Groups archives). The three squadrons were based at the the remote fields for different periods of time. As a matter of fact, the Air corps left two P-47's in the waters off Groton Airport due to training accidents! Certainly these training squadrons would've been assigned patrol duties, but they weren't specifically stationed at Stratford for exclusive plant protection.

I hope it helps.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry! Very good info from everybody. I really wonder what precautions from the coast were taken to ensure the plant was safe. Maybe Sub-netting? That inlet with the ramp going into the water seemed like a wonderful invite to the enemy. Other than M.P's stationed at Stratford,( or their own security,) I wonder what other types of firepower were at the hands of Vought. Maybe some 20mm, 40mms? Other than the P-47's on the opposite side of the road. I'm going to have to ask my Father about the possibility of Pt Boats making their way to Stratford. Newport, Melville,Bayone is all so close

[Cherrybomber13]

Frank,

From the wartime photos of the plant that we have, there doesn't look to be any thing beyond the regular guards and fences.
I really don't think the Housatonic River would have been deep enough for a sub to maneuver effectively with out being identified.
The 57ths Barracks or offices are still at the airport, they are now the CAP from what I understand.

[Cvairwerks]

Consolidated in Fort Worth had at least 3 anti-aircraft gun sites during the war. If they had wanted to, any of the bombers on the flight line could have been loaded and launched, as when they were delivered, they were combat ready less ammo, ordinance, maps and code books. There are a full set of guns and most of the radios and other interior furnishings for a B-32 in the bottom of Possum Kingdom Lake from the -32 that Beryl Erickson landed with the damaged landing gear. The flight test crew dumped everything they could over PK after the nose gear had a structural failure during takeoff.

Last edited by Cvairwerks on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

[whistlingdeath77]

Frank,

From the wartime photos of the plant that we have, there doesn't look to be any thing beyond the regular guards and fences.
I really don't think the Housatonic River would have been deep enough for a sub to maneuver effectively with out being identified.
The 57ths Barracks or offices are still at the airport, they are now the CAP from what I understand.

Hi Drew. Yeah i can't find anything else either in a photo that shows aa defense for the plant. I really don't know too much about that river or depth but I was just getting the " what if " senerios. That and watching run silent run deep and other great ww2 sub movies puts thoughts in your head! Hope to see you guys soon,

Frank

[whistlingdeath77]

Part three is the easiest to answer. The USAAF had the squadron nearby for protection, and the Army had no Corsairs*.
While Vought made fighters there, they would no more have had the authority to create a company squadron for plant protection, than Ford would have had to form their own Armored Battalion.



*Ok, they might have had a couple somewhere for testing, training, comparison et c., but not in squadron strength, OK? I can be as pedantic as the next guy<G>

I'm fully aware that the Army did not have Corsairs. thank you for the input