Jimmy Stewart - Bombardier Trainer

[AviationArtist]

I'm conducting research for a new painting that I want to feature Jimmy Stewart piloting a Beech At-11 during his service as a bombardier trainer in NM. Trouble is I need accurate information about the specific aircraft tail number, markings etc. Anyone out there be able to help?

[Taigh Ramey]

I didn't know that Jimmy Stewart trained as a bombardier.

I have a lot of class annuals for the different bombardier training bases so if you can tell me what base he was at and possibly the class he graduated in I might have a class annual in our museum's archives. I also have lots of paint schemes for the different base AT-11's. The paint only refers to the individual markings as all of the AT-11 were bare metal.

It is going to be real hard to determine just what aircraft he trained in as there are no records that I know of that might support this. The one possibility is if he kept a log book called the bombardiers individual training record which has a column for the aircraft flown. We have several in the collection but only a few actually name the aircraft and then it is usually by the buzz code. Sometimes it is possible to correlate the buzz code with a serial number but this is also by chance and old photo as there was no set pattern to the buzz number assignment/serial numbers.

Since he was so famous maybe there are some old films or news reels that might show what aircraft he was training in.

Have you had any luck with finding any information about his training so far?

[The Inspector]

Just a guess, but I would think since it was a training facility, there wouldn't be any 'my' airplanes, they would be pool units and if you showed up @ 0843 you drew '238' and if you showed up @ 0846 you drew '213'. Instructors may have had aircraft they felt more at home flying or ones they'd rather not fly because of....
Find a good period correct photo or several and go from there.
I believe he flew as the pilot on training missions for student bombardiers not as a bombardier, after all, someone has to drive the bus.

[Taigh Ramey]

I think you are exactly correct in that they did fly whatever aircraft was assigned to them for the days flights. The aircraft rotated through maintenance regularly too. When the student was done he may have flown a dozen different aircraft. The pilots who flew the students likely flew all of the aircraft in the section he was assigned.

I have heard the same stories about the training aircraft as we have heard from the combat aircraft in that there were ones that flew better than the others. The whole Monday aircraft versus a Wednesday one.

As for markings it would be straight forward to figure out what section Jimmy Stewart flew in and then pick an aircraft as it is highly likely that he flew in that aircraft at one time or another. I wonder if there is a Jimmy Steward archives that might have his log book which may have specific aircraft listed.

[TAdan]

Perhaps the Jimmy Stewart Museum might have something...

http://www.jimmy.org/

[agent86]

Ok,I always rant about my best friends dad who was in the 306th bomb group in Thurleigh England.He and his wife moved to Henderson, nevada.His next door neighbor was a guy about the same age as he was.he was really small,maybe 5'3" tall.got to talking to him and it turned out he was a ball turret gunnerin B-24s during he war in england.even my friends dad didnt know this.millions of people played their part in that dam war

[JohnB]

...even my friends dad didnt know this..

Know what? That Jimmy Stewart was B-24 pilot?

[AviationArtist]

Thanks all for the replies so far. I have made contact and swapped photos and ideas with the curator of the base he flew from in NM in 1942, but alas he has no specific information he can give me as to Jimmy's class or the codes in use on the AT-11s at the time. I have tried to source his logbooks as they would inevitably have the numbers in, but I understand that he donated all of his flying paperwork to an unknown University in Utah...?

Taigh, I understand he flew as the pilot for bombardier students out of Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque. sometime between 1942 and 1943, beyond that I'm stumped.

I did try emailing the Jimmy Stewart museum but have had no luck as it was a dead link - I'll try and give them a call.

From the angle I want to position the plane the actual tail number is not important, but I did want to be accurate with any other markings. I know the buzz numbers would appear on the leading edges of the wings and nose, I think in black on the bare metal from the few pictures I've managed to find. If the buzz numbers were fairly randomly assigned would it be accrate enough to pick three from a general Kirkland photo of about that time? I do have a good shot of JS walking away from an AT-11 with his students, but unfortunately they obscure any markings...

[AviationArtist]

Ok, a quick up-date that may lead to more information. Jimmy Stewart transfered to Kirkland Field in August 1942. I also understand that the RKO film 'Bombardier' was filmed at Kirkland Field just before this time...sounds promising, but where to get a copy, or even some stills...

[The Inspector]

Douglas B-18 BOLO's were also used to train bombardiers, your mention of that patriotic piece of celluloid 'Bombardier' jogged that loose from my deep memory files.

[Steve Nelson]

I have a 1943 book called "Bombardier: Tom Dixon Wins His Wings With The Bomber Command" that features a bunch of pics of B-18s, AT-11s, AT-6s and other types. It's written towards a middle/high school audience, and basically follows a bombardier through the training process (as much as they could, and still maintain opsec.) I'm sure the names and characters are fictional, but the photos are great, and the descriptions of the training process are (as far as I can tell) accurate.

SN

[Taigh Ramey]

Ok, a quick up-date that may lead to more information. Jimmy Stewart transfered to Kirkland Field in August 1942. I also understand that the RKO film 'Bombardier' was filmed at Kirkland Field just before this time...sounds promising, but where to get a copy, or even some stills...

It just so happens that I bought an original 16mm copy of Bombardier on 3 reels from eBay not too long ago. I haven't watched it yet but it is supposed to be a good copy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=230596462125&si=sF46ChHkPbkHGoObEWfhOpJnkxA%253D&viewitem=

It's Kirtland by the way not Kirkland. I have very few class books starting with the "First Book of Kirtland Field 1943" and they show the buzz code letter Q. I also have two magazines published there called Bombsight one dated 3-1-43 and the other 10-1-44 neither mention Mr. Stewart.

I have three of the bombardiers individual record books that start in July of 42 with both the B-18A and the AT-11 and then the next two in late 42 and April to June 1943 are all AT-11. Here is a sample of the AT-11 ships one student flew:

Robert E Eberling class of 43-9 flt IIB starts 4-22-43 ends 6-11-43 all AT-11's Q-06, Q-10, Q-17, Q-93, Q-06, Q-15, Q-83, Q-91, Q-137, Q-139, Q-128, Q-143, Q-109,

It is interesting that he flew with 13 different pilots listed in this log and as expected several pilots multiple times.





It looks like the buzz code was only on the side of the nose and not on the cowling and leading edges as seen in other schools. Sometimes the cowling was painted a different color to denote the different flights in a squadron but I do not know if Kirtland did this and if so what the colors would have been. Bob Parmerter might have more information on this as I recall a researcher a long time ago putting a lot of effort into AT-11 serial numbers and buzz codes and he had come up with some cowl colors too.

The inboard quarters of the cowling should be flat olive drab green for anti glare as ween in the photo above. The area in front of the cockpit glass was also a non glare OD green.

Are you doing this for trade with the guys working on the AT-11 in ABQ CAF? I would also like to commission you for some AT-11 artwork as well.

I hope this helps

[AviationArtist]

Taigh,

You are of course quite right, I don't know what always makes me say Kirkland, but there we go.

Thanks so much for the info and pictures, I'd take a guess that any of those numbers would be suiitable. I had also thought of Bob and seeing what light he might shed on the detail as well...I've been in touch with him before, but a while back, could you PM me his email? No, this painting is not linked to the guys working in ABQ CAF, I have been thinking and researching this idea for a while now as I have always had a real soft spot for the At-11 version of the Beech 18. I would be very happy to discuss ideas with you on a commission. My email is: twinbeech@fsmail.net How is your long-term AT-11 restoration project progressing? I do check your site out every now and then, very inspiring.

Steve, I also have a copy of that book, it is a good, if restricted period read!

Dom

[Taigh Ramey]

There is a photo on eBay of the pilots looking at the assignment board at ABQ in 1942. the photo scan is low res but the full photo will have the ships Q numbers and pilots names that are readable. Depending on when in 1942 there could be B-18's. $22 plus shipping...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400063560199&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

[AviationArtist]

That's a clever find! Shame I can't quite make out the detail, I've sent a message to the vendor.

On the subject of the composition, I've been thinking of having the ship coming out of the canvas at a 3/4 angle to the left (it's right), with the view being slightly under the flight path. That way I can exploit the glass nose with the great detailing of the framing and rivet lines, I can include the then top sectret Norden bomb sight, and the pilot and student bombardier can become focal points. With that angle and at that height any landscape will be in the far distance which is fine.