The Back Door Gang......

[Jack Cook]

I haven't posted photos in a while so here's a few. These came from my dear friend Jim Byers who along with his twin brother Bill flew in the 430th FS.
They also both flew fighters in Korea (Bill in the 49th FBW and Jim in the 18th FBW). They also flew sprayers and firebombers in the 60s & 70s. Bill
flew PBYs, TBMs, B-17s & Venturas while Jim flew A-26s and the A-24s sprayers owned by Portland now at Tillamook and the AFM.

430th FS Warmwell, UK. Bill is bottom far left while Jim is bottom 5th from left

Bill, Maj Ralph Embry and Jim

Maj Leon Temple CO 430th FS KIA DDay

1Lt Stair

Capt Raynor Roberts

1Lt Jack Messinger

1Lt John Lamb

1Lt Bob Loft

Capt John Hatch KIFA 357th FG post VE-Day

1Lt Bedford KIA DDay

[Franklin]

Best looking scheme on a P-38? OD with invasion stripes IMHO ... Duxford P-38

BTW Pappy and Chuck Yeager are douchebags

[Jack Cook]

No more
You must be trying to stir up a lively debate with torches and pitchforks.

[Shay]

Excellent as always Jack.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[Dan Johnson II]

I know you've posted some of these before. Not sure if I posted this one before. In 2005 at the US Cemetary near Omaha Beach I was struck by the numbers of Fighter Bomber pilots who lay alongside the ground pounders they did their best to protect. It was very sobering to say the least.

Jack Messinger's marker. I remember being surprised I knew the name last time you posted his photo

[Jack Cook]

I believe he was killed in a landing accident but not sure.
Temple and Belford were downed on DDay by light flak guns.
6 June 44 P-38J-15-LO, 42-104133, Major Leon B. Temple, 430FS. Temple was shot down by flak south of Carentan and crashed near St. Georges-de-Bohon.
6 June 44 P-38J-10-LO, 42-67511, 2Lt. Robert J. Belford, 430FS. Belford was shot down by flak and crashed near Periers.

[Franklin]

So what do you think the daily loss rate was for allied figher pilots during the war. Two catigorie: Combat and non-combat losses. Excluding Russian losses. And maybe breaking down by theater. I'm sure there the data exists. I haven't found but I haven't really looked too hard.

[Jack Cook]

Separate that into air to air missions and air to ground and you'll find the loss rate
for ground support missions was 10X greater in losses.

[Dan Johnson II]

The best way to describe it was covered at an event where Bud Anderson was speaking a while back. Also at the event was a Jug ground attack pilot who flew with the 345th FS, 350th FG in the MTO. Bud made the comment that he was only hit once in all his flights. The Jug driver laughed and said if he didn't get hit, he was probably not doing his job right.

Check the cemetaries on the road to Falaise. Full of Typhoon pilots. You'll find the occasional marker in the middle of nowhere on a backroad too where a Tiffie pilot lost his life. There is no comparison between what the air to air guys and air to ground guys faced. Air to air was most definately the 'safer' of the two.

[Dan Johnson II]

I believe he was killed in a landing accident but not sure.
Temple and Belford were downed on DDay by light flak guns.
6 June 44 P-38J-15-LO, 42-104133, Major Leon B. Temple, 430FS. Temple was shot down by flak south of Carentan and crashed near St. Georges-de-Bohon.
6 June 44 P-38J-10-LO, 42-67511, 2Lt. Robert J. Belford, 430FS. Belford was shot down by flak and crashed near Periers.

The "Backdoor Gang" says Messinger spun in on landing at his own field.

[Jack Cook]

Yup, that's what Jim Byers said. He made a couple of comments but most aren't repeatable.
One without the names was about his first CO in Korea. He was assigned to the 67th FIS and
thought they were a bunch of pussies and told them so! He was kicked out and sent to the 12th FIS.
When the ''new'' CO for the 67th arrived he went to the 12th for a combat refresher and was assigned
to Jim's flight He was L/C Julian Crow and Jim loved him and Crow kicked ass when he took
over the 67th! I showed Jim a photo of his old CO getting a plaque. He simply said "they had to give
the SOB a plaque because you gotta go where the shooting is to get any medals

[Franklin]

Check the cemetaries on the road to Falaise. Full of Typhoon pilots. You'll find the occasional marker in the middle of nowhere on a backroad too where a Tiffie pilot lost his life. There is no comparison between what the air to air guys and air to ground guys faced. Air to air was most definately the 'safer' of the two.

I wonder if the same was true on the eastern front?