B-24D with 5 50.Cals in the nose

[the330thbg]

Spoke to a comrade of my father's today. Before this gentleman flew B-29's for the 20th AF.., he flew B-24D's for the 11th out of Amchitka, AL. He said his B-24D had 5 .50's in the nose. Three that the bombardier and nav could fire and two that the pilot and co-pilot could fire. Anyone heard this? He is going to send me a photo.

He also mentioned a mission with 50% casualties. On 12 August 1943 the 11th AF, 21BS sent 10 B-24's and 10 B-25's to bomb the northern most island of Japan across from Russia. He called it Paramashiro.., (he did not know how to spell it).., he said only 5 of each aircraft came back. It was a major FUBAR.., he stated all of Alaska campaign was a major FUBAR.

I can't find any info on the web about this raid on 12 August 43. Any assistance would be most appreciated. He just turned 90 this last week, but he is sharp as a tack!!!

[Mudge]

From what I've read, I'd have to agree that the entire Alaska campaign was FUBAR. Many of the "experts" seem to agree that the only reason we started the campaign was because the Japanese were on "American soil". They all agree that the Japanese weren't there in enough strength to be a threat to the mainland and that the weather conditions there didn't favor either side. Seems to me to be a lot of wasted troops and equipment to "prove a point".

Mudge the opinionated

[Second Air Force]

There was a field modification (I have no idea where or who executed it originally) with one or two fixed fifties on the very bottom of the bombardier compartment. These were fired from the cockpit. The other three could have been mounted in the swivel mounts in the nose glazing and side windows depending on the airplane.

It is known that some 98th Bomb Group B-24Ds had the pilot-fired guns--notably Hail Columbia that Colonel Kane flew in the Ploesti mission. I hadn't heard about 11th AF airplanes having them, leading me to believe that the modification was more widespread than I'd originally thought.

There is a bit of information about the Kuriles mission here: http://www.hlswilliwaw.com/aleutians/11 ... istory.htm

Good information!
Scott

[the330thbg]

Yes, Scott, exactly.., he said they were at the very bottom of the Bombardier's compartment and there were two of them that could be fired from the cockpit. A total of 5 in the nose. He is digging up a photo. I'll get it up as soon as I can. The raid on 12 Aug 1943 to Paramushiro sounds horrible. 10 aircraft out of 20 lost.., he flew 14 missions in the B-24 and over 30 in the B-29's in Japan in the 330th and he said that one over Paramushiro was his worst!

[Second Air Force]

I once read a bombardier's story about those fixed guns. He said he was hunched over his bombsight setting it up when the pilot decided to test-fire his guns without any warning. The bombardier said he almost jumped through the top of the airplane when the guns went off!

Scott

[The Inspector]

For a good recounting of the campaign in the Aleutian Islands, find a copy of 'The Ten Thousand Mile War'. Gen. Buckner did an awful lot without much to do it with. That included Army troops fresh out of training in California sent to invade Kiska with summer weight uniforms and leather boots, lots and lots of cases of frostbitten feet because no one knew about (or bothered to check into it) weather conditions in the chain and they'd never heard of shoe pack insulated boots.

[The Inspector]

Another really great book about the Aleutians air campaign is 'The Aleutian Warriors' a history of the 11th air force & fleet wing 4 Part 1 (never have seeen a part 2 so don't know if he ever got one done) by John Haile Cloe

[Pogmusic]

I always find it amusing when people say how bad an idea such and such a campaign was. Very easy with 20/20 hindsight. Yes, few Japanese landed. Although we had broken their code, did we really want 1) The Japanese to know it by not reacting to it and 2) What would they have done IF we HADN'T reacted. Would they have continued to reinforce and expand?

[the330thbg]

well, Monday morning 'quarterbacking' is not always the case. Aleutian was a FUBAR opp, same as Arnhem. 20/20 hindsight or not.., they were FUBAR prior to the invasion and FUBAR the following Monday. Some campaign's are thrown together to appease a superior. Some need an extra star, aka invasion of Sicily. A little more time spent in training/planning and recon and things could have had a much better outcome.

[JBoyle]

In Fate is the Hunter, Ernie Gann mentions C-87s with fixed nose guns.
Probably a common mod early in the war rather like the Pacific B-17s with weird nose mods.

[Nathan]

I always find it amusing when people say how bad an idea such and such a campaign was. Very easy with 20/20 hindsight. Yes, few Japanese landed. Although we had broken their code, did we really want 1) The Japanese to know it by not reacting to it and 2) What would they have done IF we HADN'T reacted. Would they have continued to reinforce and expand?

Agreed. A forgotten and important front during WWII. The Japanese could do harm from there. P-38's shot down some planes there, Mudge!

[Nathan]

I always find it amusing when people say how bad an idea such and such a campaign was. Very easy with 20/20 hindsight. Yes, few Japanese landed. Although we had broken their code, did we really want 1) The Japanese to know it by not reacting to it and 2) What would they have done IF we HADN'T reacted. Would they have continued to reinforce and expand?

Agreed. A forgotten and important front during WWII. The Japanese could do harm from there. P-38's shot down some planes there, Mudge!

[The Inspector]

If you've never been somewhere, how can you make a judgement about conditions? When my late Father worked in ANC for the SBA, he got a phone call from some pencil neck bean tabulator in D.C. wanting to know just why he FLEW from ANC to Kodiak, 'it's only a little over three hundred miles, you should have saved some funds and driven there' "It's an Island"------from the other end, 'CLICK.'

My parents hated voting days for National Elections, they'd be standing in line to vote and someone would come into the polling place and announce 'DIDJA HEAR? Farsnaggle was declared the winner for President", people would toss up their hands and leave without voting for local stuff like Mayor, school bonds, etc. because ANC is 8 hours behind the East Coast.

Same deal here, drafted REMINGTON RAIDERS in D.C. probably never heard of Alaska and assumed if it's mid 60's here, it must be mid 60's there and only miss the forcast by about 60 degrees to the negative. During WW2 Alaska might as well heve been on the moon for the average 'outsider cheechako'.

[the330thbg]

Scott, found the B-24D you posted in the 'Stars and bars on aircraft thread'.

The Squaw taken at Herington in November of '43.


This clearly shows a single mounted .50 below the bombardier. So my B-24D pilot I was speaking with had two of these side/side and then two on either side of the nose and one in the middle. Quite a punch!

[lmritger]

Sounds almost exactly like a Halpro Project B-24D, although I thought most/all of those went to the ETO and took part in the Ploesti raid...

http://forum.armyairforces.com/tm.aspx? ... ge=1#82182

But what do I know, Liberators aren't my main course of study.

Lynn