WixComRev #1 - 12 O'clock High, the movie

[Scott Rose]

I'm watching 12 O'clock High again and I was planning on doing a review of it for the site. I started to think about that and realized that nobody really cares what I think about this movie. However, if we reviewed it was a community then maybe we could come up with a truly useful review that could help somebody choose to watch this movie and not just one persons opinion of it. So the WIX Community Review (WixComRev) is born. I wanna try this out and see what we can make of it. The movie, as stated, is 12 O'clock High. Post a response saying what you liked, what you disliked, why you think its amazing, why you think it sucks, what was wrong with the story, technical aspects, etc... and any easter eggs you might have found or know about. Feel free to comment on non-movie aspects like DVD extras, anecdotes and whatnot. At the end of a week or so I will take the various opinions and comments and put it together into a review on WRG. I know WIXer opinion is not something in short supply so lets hear them. If this works out well review a movie every two weeks or so and eventually try it with books.

[whistlingdeath77]

well, simply put....a great movie

[The Inspector]

One question, how did Savage, being such a stickler for details and orders, get away with tossing every cigarette(after 2 drags) butt away without field stripping them or even putting them out?

Enquiring knows want to mind........................

[b29flteng]

I think it was a GREAT movie. I just watched it for the 100th time last week.

Here's some comments from the www.IMBD.com

Goofs for
Twelve O'Clock High (1949)

Crew or equipment visible: In the opening scene the entire camera crew is reflected in a store door.


Continuity: Col. Davenport is relieved of command late one night. He is replaced by General Savage, who agrees to take over early the next morning. Yet during those few hours, one officer has committed suicide and already had his funeral, and other officers are deemed to be AWOL who were present and on duty late the previous evening.


Anachronisms: In the film, a large white triangle with a black "A" inside it is painted on the vertical stabilizers (tail fins) of the 918th Bomb Group's B-17 airplanes. At the point in World War II depicted in the film, 8th Air Force B-17's did not yet bear these markings, carrying only the plane's serial number on the tail. The white triangle with a black "A" was the identifying insignia for the real-life 91st Bomb Group later in the war. The aircraft used in the movie were marked to match wartime combat camera footage, some of which featured 91st Bomb Group planes.


Revealing mistakes: On the last mission General Savage goes on, right after take-off, the camera slowly zooms in on Piccadilly Lily's cockpit. A minute later the camera zooms in on Reluctant Dragon's cockpit, then Fluffy Fuzz's cockpit. All three times the plane in the background is the same #23613 and the stains and dirt on the roof of the three cockpits is the same.


Factual errors: During the bombing mission depicted in the film, the tail gun of General Savage's "Picadilly Lily" B-17F airplane is shown briefly, but it is a late-war model "Cheyenne"-type tail turret - incorrect for the time period during which the events in the film take place.


Anachronisms: Insignia incorrect for the period. The Schweinfurt ball bearing plant raids took place in 1943. By that time, the national insignia had the bars on each side of the round star background. Apparently the older star-on-blue with no bars was used to match documentary footage inserted into the movie.


Revealing mistakes: During the aerial combat scenes of the movie's last mission, actual WWII combat footage is randomly inserted to add realism. However, three of these clips clearly show a closeup of an American P-47 fighter attacking the B-17's.


Revealing mistakes: Stock combat footage of air-to-air combat is used extensively. Some clips have been flipped left to right and reused. Others, particularly of German fighters blowing up, were not filmed from bombers but were taken from the gun cameras of Allied fighters, which did not accompany the bombers at this time. (Some shots taken from non-bombers are from cameras on German fighters, on footage captured after the war.)


Continuity: When General Savage visits Lt Col Gately in the hospital, close-up shots are taken from the left side of Gately's bed and long distance shots are taken from the right. The lighting on Gately's face is significantly brighter in the close-ups.


Revealing mistakes: On the bombing mission to the ball bearing factory the actual combat film footage used is of a bomb strike on a railroad marshaling yard.


Factual errors: On the ball bearing bombing mission the camera shows a close up of the exterior of the cockpits of Picadilly Lilly, Reluctant Dragon and Fluffy Fuzzy. All shots show each plane's nose art above the navigator's windows to identify the different planes and crews. Actual nose art was painted below the navigator's windows.


Factual errors: In the movie credits, the flight surgeon is listed as "Capt. 'Doc' Kaiser". However, from the character's first appearance at the crash-landed B-17 in the opening scene, he wears oak leaves of a major (or a lieutenant colonel, since in a B&W movie we can't initially tell if they are gold or silver). Later, he is always referred to as a major.


Factual errors: During the briefing for the ball bearing mission, General Pritchard refers to Colonel Davenport as "General Davenport" even though his insignia as a colonel (eagles) are clearly visible.


Errors made by characters (possibly deliberate errors by the filmmakers): In one scene, Frank (General Savage) calls Major Stovall "Colonel".

[tom d. friedman]

the movie has a stoic air about it. everybody doing their jobs like robots to the point of overload. hence savage not being able to pull himself up the hatch as an example. the "lepor colony".... no way that treatment would fly in today's military!!

[Second Air Force]

Always been a favorite of mine.

A little detail (that I'd guess Bierne Lay Jr. added) is the name Fluffy Fuzz on one of the Fortress fuselages. For those who might not know, General Savage was modeled after the real Frank Armstrong, who named his airplanes Fluffy Fuz. By the time he came back to the States, Gen. Armstrong, commander of the 315th Wing, was flying a B-29B named Fluffy Fuz V. I think that is a nice tip of the hat to the General and his service.

Scott

[whistlingdeath77]

I had to say the movie Memphis Belle was very good as well. There was indeed so many things that were wrong in that movie,( such as flying on one engine, ball turret guy just hanging out the plane after turret shot out.) But overall a great movie too.

I'd have to say the worst movie of all time to be incorrect is Midway. I mean you could see through the entire movie that all the footage is of the wrong aircraft over and over!

12 O'clock high is a solid movie in which the acting is just great. Not like today where they don't even use 1940's slang in newer flicks. Pearl Harbor was terrible! How many REAL aircraft did they use??? Even if it was t-6's that were made to look like zeros i could deal with that, but that computer crap? Hate it

[bdk]

I have seen clips from this movie used as examples of leadership ability shown in management training films. Amazing that this still holds up 60 years later as among the best examples to be found!

[SPANNERmkV]

AOPA's Pilot Magazine just had a trivia question.

Which WWII movie was used as a training film by the USAF?
Spoiler Alert---

12 O'Clock High was used to teach Leadership.

It was all hiding in there... The good and the bad traits of Leadership.
Even Savage went round the bend without knowing it and had to listen to subordinates. (And at times NOT listen to subordinates.)
The trait of being too empathetic and losing sight of THE MISSION.
The trait of being so MISSION oriented people wanted to quit following him.
Even after Savage achieved the mission of turning around the problem he had been sent to solve he had his best crews trying to transfer out and go the heck someplace else.
Building pride in people through success... and improving performance through humiliation.
In "Today's" military and society a LEPER COLONY would never fly... But there are times when screw-ups will not "get it" if there are not consequences that they do NOT like.

I had noticed the P47 substitutions and the fighter-plane gun camera goofs, but I still don't know all I should about the details listed above. BUT I AM GLAD THERE ARE THOSE ON WIX WHO DO!

Simply put, one of the finest screen-plays of Air Combat ever made.
But what do I know?

SPANNER

[mustangdriver]

I think this is a great section! This could be alot of fun, and very useful. As for the movie, Every B-17 fan just haas to see it.

[The Inspector]

SPANNER,
So is 'The Bedford Incident' I hated Richard Widmark's character in that movie

[whistlingdeath77]

Black sheep squadron had some nice air to air shots. Everybody remember Strategic air command?

[The Inspector]

Frank Lovejoy doing his best two dimensional rendering of LeMay? Love the B-36 stuff but the rest of the movie is typical mid 50's cotton candy for your head. And, yes, I DO crank up the volume when that 36 flies over the ball field-

[planenutti]

Having been thru more then a few enlisted leadership schools in the Navy during 26 years, they used '12 O'clock High' to show the different leadership styles. When we got to the last day of the class in the CPO level course, they asked us if we wanted to be dismissed early or finish the movie. We stayed and finished watching the movie. In this "new" Navy I doubt that they still use the movie.
Bob
ATCS(AW)
USN Retired
1975-2001

[Steve Nelson]

"12 O'clock High" is one of my all-time favorites. Even though there's not a huge amount of flying, it's still one of the best films ever made about WWII air combat. It blows the 1990 "Memphis Belle" completely away. 12OH is proabably as close to "Band of Brothers" as possible in the time period in which it was made. I can cut the producers some slack as far as the markings and other accuracy goofs in the IMDB list. The movie was still far more realistic than others of the time, and many films that have been made since. Of course it would never "fly" with today's audiences..no "love interest," and not enough "action."

I'm sure it's probably been posted before, but since this is a dedicated thread, does anyone have a list of exactly how many and which B-17s were used in the film, and thier ultimate fates? I assume at least some are still with us.

SN