Art Lacey's B-17 (link)

[b29flteng]

http://www.katu.com/news/local/95638799.html

[mustangdriver]

Knowing what we are going through at Grissom, I can't even begin to imagine what the inside of that one must be like.

[APG85]

As much as I would like to believe that this is going to happen, I'm doubtful. It seems like every 10 years or so, the owners of this plane announce a big plan to bring this B-17 down and begin a full scale restoration...and...and...nothing. Meanwhile, it continues to deteriorate outside on poles. Unless something has changed, I'm not seeing that they have the money, facilities and expertise to accomplish a proper restoration to flying status or static display. Even the nose section was never completed. Maybe it's time they consider selling this aircraft to a museum or group that has the capabilities to properly care for it. Just my opinion...

[warbird1]

Uh-oh, did anyone read the comments on the news article at the link?

From one reader, who wrote:

"A nice story but a little loose on the facts. Bob Struges of Troutdale was the pilot who flew the bomber to Troutdale airport. Bob was a WWII Boeing Service pilot and operated a B-17 parts business in Troutdale. His sons still run Columia Airmotive. According to Bob there was NO first B-17 that Art crash landed. His description of how he flew it was quite impossible.Bob also stated that the gov't never actually sold the airplane but rather released it for display purposes.Bob had copies of the original paperwork to back that claim up. The lack of ownership has precluded it's sale and the denial of IRS 501c3 staus has precuded any tax free donations. The CAF in Texas recently lost custody of the very rare F-82 fighter they had for 40 years to the USAF when they tried to sell it and voilated their display agreement. "

If the reader is correct on his assertions, that changes EVERYTHING!

I hope the good General isn't reading this. He could waive his magic wand and have another B-17 at the NMUSAF. Thinking about it, perhaps that would be a better fate than sitting out in the elements with no hope for restoration any time soon.

[T J Johansen]

I hope the good General isn't reading this.

Well, you sure have advertised it now...

T J

[JimH]

afaik this is still sitting there...

jim

[Jack Cook]

If the reader is correct on his assertions, that changes EVERYTHING!

I am...opps I mean he or they are

[mustangdriver]

Man this could get very interesting.

[aerovin]

Uh-oh, did anyone read the comments on the news article at the link?

From one reader, who wrote:

"A nice story but a little loose on the facts. Bob Struges of Troutdale was the pilot who flew the bomber to Troutdale airport. Bob was a WWII Boeing Service pilot and operated a B-17 parts business in Troutdale. His sons still run Columia Airmotive. According to Bob there was NO first B-17 that Art crash landed. His description of how he flew it was quite impossible.Bob also stated that the gov't never actually sold the airplane but rather released it for display purposes.Bob had copies of the original paperwork to back that claim up. The lack of ownership has precluded it's sale and the denial of IRS 501c3 staus has precuded any tax free donations. The CAF in Texas recently lost custody of the very rare F-82 fighter they had for 40 years to the USAF when they tried to sell it and voilated their display agreement. "

If the reader is correct on his assertions, that changes EVERYTHING!

I hope the good General isn't reading this. He could waive his magic wand and have another B-17 at the NMUSAF. Thinking about it, perhaps that would be a better fate than sitting out in the elements with no hope for restoration any time soon.

The "more complete" version of the story of this airplane has been around for decades and most people familiar with it find the Bob Sturges account much more credible. I documented it in Final Cut and it's been done elsewhere also. I have a copy of the document showing the airplane transferred for memorial purposes for $1,500, and interviewed both Art Lacey and Bob Sturges many years ago. I don't think the ownership issue is viable because of incomplete records and I doubt very much the gov't could make a claim against the airplane without any supporting paperwork. The Lacey group has worked hard to put their official version of the story out there as the true history of the airplane, and that effort continues today. Whatever they can do to raise interest and money to protect the airplane: more power to them. Until and unless someone with big bucks gets involved, or a concerted effort is made to raise money in a grass roots campaign, how is the situation going to change? It would take a million just to get the airplane off the pedestal, move it, and have a purpose-built building built to protect it. That doesn't do a thing to progress on a restoration. It looks to be a sad fate for the airplane.

Of course, it's easy to complain from the sidelines. It is a vaild question of anyone, myself included, who expresses outrage about the condition of the airplane: how much will you donate to get the airplane protected?

[groundpounder]

In my opinion, for average working class folks this is a pipe dream. It is all good and well to want to honour Art Lacey's dream or whatever, but reality has to grip these people sometime. Or not. The best bet for them in my opinion would be for them to bring it down in pieces and rent some warehouse space and store it. Let's face it, nothing is going to happen here and there is no way that the general public is going to donate enough money to do anything other than pay for some storage rent. Look at how long the guys on "The Rat" have been going at it, and they know what they are doing. Maybe, and thats a BIG maybe, someone might want to buy it from the family and restore it, then the family could see some progress and preservation on the aircraft as well as have some peace of mind knowing that the plane will live on for many years maybe even with Arts name on it. I think that the thing is gonna fall apart if they try to move it without professional help, but somehow i see a flatdeck and a hyab owned by Bubba's towing showing up on a saturday morning. Even if everyone on wix donated $100 how far would that go? Are you ready to donate more ? $10,000? $100,000 ? Its still a drop in the bucket in the big picture, and if you aren't gonna get a tax reciept...forget it ! Maybe some good parts for Swamp Ghost or a certain C model that is in the works could be had. Skeptical ? You bet !!!!

[Django]

Probably the best solution might be trading it as it sits for a replica and $$$, and restore the "station" to it's former glory, and allow the B-17 to be restored to it's former glory as a flyer, before it ends up like the Sea Bitch. Then the locals keep their landmark. The B-17 is preserved. Everyone should be happy. With that said, I KNOW that will be a hard decision for them to make. If I had my very own B-17, I don't know that I could let it go either. But they should consider it for the sake of the airplane.

[JOHN MILLER]

Just thought I would update this thread about the lacy B-17. I was there this weekend for lunch. I went to museum and was talking to a nice gentleman docent, and he told me the latest news on it's planned restoration. then today, local news KATU had a article about it, so here is the link.

http://milwaukie.katu.com/photo-gallery ... rong-again

john

[peter]

What a mess she is in now.. I mean its bad enough that she was decapitated years ago but what happened to the missing tail gun and belly turrets? Also I dont believe for one second that bird control can't be accomplished. It takes effort people and can be done! Looks to me like this project is doomed unless someone with very deep pockets comes along. I am actually surprised there hasn't been a structural failure of some sort..

[the330thbg]

she has obviously been pilfiered over the years. Pieces taken off here and there.. sold for $$ or just outright stolen. Depressing as hell.

from the air she looks like a headless body laid out on a cross to rot.

[JOHN MILLER]

When I was there, the bombardier section of nose, and the ball turret were on display in the museum, cockpit and tail I am assuming is in storage.in the restaurant is a shadowbox of a piece of the nose "keel", I was surprised how badly corroded it was, They must of made a new one for the nose.

john