Hispano Aviacion Ha1112 M1-L WkNr 234

[mlenoch]

Thank you for posting the photos. Great to see it in the air!
2 questions: Is it German law that Swastikas not be displayed? Was the left gear strut flat?
Thx,
VL
(All my relatives flew Messerschmitts)

[Mark V]

Not sure about the gear strut Vlado but it is indeed against German law to display a Swastika - so covered up or just not there at all is the order of the day.

[ChrisDNT]

"Yes, it is forbidden by law ! "

But :

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany- ... 1703329/L/

[Second Air Force]

Thanks for the photos and update, Matthias!

I must say that the black background in lieu of the actual swastika is better than a bare fin. The airplane looks really good!

Scott

[Enemy Ace]

Hats off to the meier motors team!!

Now just need to find an airworthy DB engine!!

[Firebird]

Walter is one of the most experienced Messerschmitt pilots in the world.

Yes.....but he did have Erich Hartmann as his Me109 'ground school' instructor

[JDK]

Firstly, great pics!

Thanks for the response Matthias. Just a few additional thoughts.

"Yes, it is forbidden by law ! "

But :
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany- ... 1703329/L/

Yes you´re right, but this example is an museum aircraft. Things in a museum, art and historical documents are not defeated by law. But outside museums, theatres and historical collections showing the swastika is forbidden by law.

State owned static aircraft usually have the Swastika applied (where appropriate) in museums, and my understanding is there is an absolute prohibition for airworthy aircraft. Where privately owned static aircraft would sit, I don't know; certainly non-state museums can show it, so if there is a historical educational element, I suspect you may get an exception made.

And it's changed. The Deutsches Museum in Munich, pre-dating the fall of the Berlin Wall, has no Swastikas on the aircraft, while the Luftwaffe Museum in Berlin - post-Wall - does have them painted on. My assumption is that it was not legal (or wise) to display the Swastika when the museum was re-constituted postwar, and for the curators of the Deutches Museum to go around now with a variety pack of Swastikas would be politically a very bad idea.

You might remember the airshow Hahnweide 2009. The french Flugwerk Fw190 A8/N was also taped, in France it is no problem to fly with the swastika, but dont try this in Germany. The law is so hard, that it is forbidden to show swastika-killmarkings on a plane. Btw. The law also includes modelairplanes, display model kits and so on.

I wouldn't say 'no problem', I think French law has become more relaxed on the matter recently, as German requirements for museums have evidentally changed.

Likewise the Swastika has issues for display in Italy and Spain (the other ex-faschist nations).

Some weeks ago I bought a 1/6 scale pilot figure of a german WW2 pilot from Dragon for my next radio controlled scale-project. The customs made me a big problem cause the pilot weared a ribbon round the neck, the so called "Ritter Kreuz" (a medal for aircombat successes) and on this cross was a swastika .... big big problem. Luckily for me they gave me the chance to destroy the medal and I was not sentenced to pay a fine. When the police see you flying with a fully decorated modelplane, you will at first loose your plane with all the quipement build in the plane (the whol ship will be destroyed later) and you will get a fine about 8.000 Euros .... so please dont try

Pretty extreme! I've seen the 1/72 kits with the decal sheets with two squared off 'S' shapes that the modeller can combine into 'the symbol that must not pass customs...'

Yes the Germans and the german law are sometimes a bit strange ..... sometimes very strange !

Firstly we should remember why it's an issue, and the fact that the Swastika is an issue is right and proper (IMHO).

Secondly most people don't realise that the Swastika is not a national marking as, say, the cross on the wings and fuselage, or the German flag on the tail of modern Luftwaffe and civil German aircraft are, but the Swastika is the badge and symbol of a legally-banned political party, the Nazi Party. As well as being a historical fact, thanks to the activities of the far right and Neo-Nazis in Europe, the Swastika remains a current political problem in Germany, which prevents the symbol being seen only in its proper historical context.

(And of course the Swastika symbol itself pre-dates the Nazis and their use. It was a good luck symbol from India to the Americas, with the Ryan Spirit of St Louis having a good luck Swastika inside the prop spinner, and the 'Lafayette' used (American) Indian head marking having a Swastika in the headdress, as just two examples on aircraft. Also the variant marking was the national marking for the Finns in W.W.II for a time.)

Just some thoughts - and I may be wrong in details as it's a minefield to make sense of!

Regards,

[The Inspector]

Then whats the law regarding reversed swastikas like a great number of fighter pilots and bomber gunners displayed as kills and 'in your face' snubs to other Luftwaffe pilots?

[JDK]

Not sure what you are thinking of exactly, Inspector (maybe the gunner 'kills' by B-17 gunner positions?) but let's say I don't think they'd 'fly' on a warbird over Germany. It's be 'interesting' to have a Lafayette Indian head with the unconnected Swastika discussion with the nice German inspectors.

Also it's not just German registered or based aircraft. As was already mentioned, flying into Germany with a Swastika on the aircraft is a no-no, even for transit, and I'd be cautious about doing the same in Austria (forgot them earlier) France, Italy and Spain as well as the rest of continental Europe. I think the Russians might be quite forthright too. I'm sure there may be exceptions, but I'm not going to test the limits...

As to the 'reversed' as kill marking ones, something similar I've got on the back burner is a collection of US captured German aircraft with US re-applied 1940s-60s Swastikas that aren't upright. It's not just a few people being 'clever' or lazy, back then, IMHO, it's the majority! The crosses were often the incorrect type as well, but they were rarely out of alignment.

[JDK]

G'day Mattias,
More great pics, and more welcome - please!

As you know, the so called "Sonnenrad" (sun-wheel) is an old symbol for "luck" but it rotates the other way round as the swastika.

The original symbol has been seen since to prehistoric times in both 'directions' - it's not accurate to say it faces the other way to the Nazi version.

There's an excellent Wiki page with a lot of the history and variant symbols - a fascinating area, IMHO: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika I've not heard of it as the 'sun-wheel' before, and the 'sun cross' from which the wheel is perhaps derived is a different symbol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_cross

But I guess we are well off topic! Thanks for sharing the pics and background, more welcome!,
Regards,