PBY equiped with Dingy and Jeep?

[Warbird Kid]

I remember seeing an old photo of a PBY that was converted to carry a small Dingy under one wing and a Jeep underneath the other. Either one of the 2 could be lowered by a winch down to the water or ground. I think it was the LSFM's example but I'm not entirely sure. Does anyone else remember this particular bird? Or did I just accidentally make it up and thought it was real?

If there are any photos of this setup I'd love to see them!

[P51Mstg]

Now that is cool....... If you are lost over water, they drop the boat. If you are on land, they drop the Jeep......

Thank God Igor invented helicopters, that saved a lot of thought on which one do you drop????

Mark H

[Jack Cook]

Your thinking of the 4 engined Bird Innovator. No Jeep but a dingy under each wing.
A bought it and was coverting it bad to standard configuration. But it's been sitting for years
half done.

[tom d. friedman]

jack, let's see a pic!!

[b747cf]

How about this Photo I took at the airshow at Homestead General in the Mid 60's.

http://picasaweb.google.com/b747cf/Misc ... 4304703714


Mark Fidler

[The Inspector]

Putting the INNOVATOR back even close to original could be some task. 30 years ago when I was slightly involved with it while it was @ PAN-AIR in NooAwlunz, the good Doctor had given it a then state of the art avionics setup and all sorts of clever interior touches like and aft airstair and a really neat stainless steel galley/eating area between and fore and aft of the main wheel wells. It was clever of him to leave the torpedo/bomb chainfalls in the wings so the custom fitted boats could be raised or lowered from inside. Not saying it can't be done just BMW (bring money with ya.)

[Warbird Kid]

Id love to do something like that. Kind of an "Indiana Jones Special" PBY
The ultimate travelers aircraft. The type of PBY that you could take anywhere and everywhere.

-Stainless Steel Galley
-Bathroom with Shower
-Pantry and small cargo area near wheel wells
-Jeep and Dingy under each wing respectively
-Tower widened to accommodate small bunk with a third blister on the top of the wing. (Skylight)
-2nd Bedroom located in rear compartment behind the blisters near the tail.
-Potential third room in the nose. Not sure what this area would best be suited for.
-Lounge area in the blisters with bar of course.
-High strength Carbon resin water tight containers along both sides of the fuselage. Covered in leather and canvas to give it that old feel. This would be essential since it would double the cargo capacity of the aircraft and give a good place to store any non essential goods during flight.

Now I need to produce a detailed drawing of the aircraft so you guys can really see what i mean! I've looked at a few examples of cutaway interiors of the PBY, including the Pensacola example, but does anyone have any detailed side views of the PBY that exposes the interior? Im looking for a computer or hand drawn image.

[tom d. friedman]

a flying man cave!! let's see the blue prints!

[Roger Cain]

There was also a Grumman HU-16 Albatross at Oshkosh in the 90's that had a small boat mounted under the right wing, that was flared over.

[The Inspector]

Like most converted PBYs, the nose is a clipper bow and holds the APU. When I said avionics suite, I meant state of the art for 1975, lots and lots of circuit breakers and big black boxes for radio gear, the area behind the flight deck was very narrow due to all the breaker panels and you entered either through the aft air stair or dived in the left hand forward window opening. The right blister is frameless and has a wooden bench bolted to it so you can literally sit outside the airplane in the blister, kinda freaky looking down between your knees at 6500 feet of clouds and terrain.

[David Legg]

The addition of dinghies under each wing of post-war commercial Catalinas was not uncommon and was normally associated with the so-called Landseaire conversions produced by Southern California Aircraft Corporation of Ontario, Ca. In addition to the option of boats, these conversions usually included the removal of the bow turret, the addition of a horn-balanced rudder and an integral rear hull airstair. The rear blisters were retained but the port unit featured a hinged access panel whilst the starboard unit was replaced with a one-piece perspex unit without any framing. This latter feature has since been copied by other companies on a small number of non-Landseaire conversions. I have never seen or heard of any Catalina with a jeep under the wings so wonder if this really did occur?

In addition to the 4-engined bird Innovator (the small 'b' was deliberate) and the LSFM's N68740, there were a number of other examples that had under-wing boats including the one in Mark Fidler's very interesting photo. This aircraft was N19Q and in the photo has 1,700hp Wright Cyclones in place of the original 1,200hp P&Ws. It also has a Super Cat type rudder to give more control with the powerful engines. In an earlier incarnation with P&Ws it was N5804N but it still had the dinghies in those times. It travelled the world both as N5804N and N19Q with Monsanto, recently known for their work on genetically modified crops. Later it was owned by actor James Stewart and in his ownership it came to grief in August 1972 whilst landing on the sea at Monte Carlo en route Marseille - Malaga and it sank.

I would be fascinated to see the operating procedures for raising and lowering the dinghies - I have often wondered how the crew member who attached the last boat to the winch then got back to the aircraft and out to the boat when it was lowered. I'm sure there is a logical answer!

In 'The Inspector's' post above, I agree that the clipper bow was a commonplace feature of post-war civil and military Catalina conversions but I think the installation of an APU in that space was more unusual and may have been unique to the Innovator which was a very 'individual' aeroplane.

[David Legg]

I meant to add, referring to 'The Inspector's' post just above, that the Duxford based former RCAF Canso A G-PBYA has frameless blisters either side of the hull (not a Landseaire conversion but done in British Columbia by Ray Williams) and whilst we do not have integral shelves like the Innovator had, it is possible to sit in the blister area and lean right out so that most of the body is effectively outside of the aircraft itself but protected by the perspex. The view is awesome! My photo to the left shows me in one of these frameless blisters although I am not leaning right out at that moment. These blisters cannot be opened in flight unlike the original framed design where the inner part opened upwards like an eyelid.

[Fouga23]

I meant to add, referring to 'The Inspector's' post just above, that the Duxford based former RCAF Canso A G-PBYA has frameless blisters either side of the hull (not a Landseaire conversion but done in British Columbia by Ray Williams) and whilst we do not have integral shelves like the Innovator had, it is possible to sit in the blister area and lean right out so that most of the body is effectively outside of the aircraft itself but protected by the perspex. The view is awesome! My photo to the left shows me in one of these frameless blisters although I am not leaning right out at that moment. These blisters cannot be opened in flight unlike the original framed design where the inner part opened upwards like an eyelid.

Those blisters indeed give an awesome view from inside, but they do look funky when viewed from the outside. Maybe it's because they're smoked and the aircraft is white. Here's a picture by the way of G-PBYA's cockpit.

Taken in Koksijde a few years ago when David showed me around. Thanks again for the tour!

[Ztex]

Did someone say Bird Innovator?

[Jack Cook]