Current status of Swamp Ghost???

[Mark_Pilkington]

.
Anyone got an accurate update on the status and where-abouts of "Swamp Ghost"??

The last entry on the Pacific Wrecks site relates to over a year ago??

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-17/41-2446.html

Despite the PNG Government's Public Accounts Committee (PAC) that declared the salvage and sale illegal, the salvagers continue to exert pressure on the PNG government and museum to allow them to export the wreck. During April 2008, the presented virtually the same proposal as originally offered, roughly $100,000 USD, but added the intention to donate a 'display facility' to the museum.

According to PNG newspaper article on September 10, 2008, a vote by the National Executive Council (NEC) has apparently reversed their decision, and accepted the offer for 300,000 Kina (roughly $115,000 USD) plus "display facility, recreation playground and barbecue area". At present, it is unclear if PNG still has custody of the wreck, or the terms of this deal.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

[Pat Carry]

The last we heard here on the WIX its status was summoned up by Otis Redding's song "Sitting by the Dock of the Bay"

[mustangdriver]

"Ah that song. My mother used to call down from her room and make me play it over and over. I used to get so sick of it. Not her though. SHe would listen to it for hours."

[Jesse C.]

"I don't like you, because you are dangerous"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNPVRh0n ... re=related

[mustangdriver]

Ha Ha I am glad someone got the reference. As for SG, enough is enough let the old girl come to the US

[Pat Carry]

Ha Ha I am glad someone got the reference. As for SG, enough is enough let the old girl come to the US

You said it Chris! I agree 1,000%

[RyanShort1]

Well, it looks to me like some folks are trying hard to sabotage any work that could be done. I saw two related items within the last two weeks.
I don't want to post the source, because I think anything posted here could be used against those I hope to see succeed. I do wonder about some US (and other) individuals who's actions make me think that they really believe the plane would be better off out there in the jungle.
Yes, it's valuable, but it's value is to a limited group of people, and I believe that these folks are giving the people overseas a fairy tale that is nothing more than way to reach some other (I know not what) end, that probably benefits someone else.
What's really odd is that from all appearances, the folks out there really stand to benefit from the deal, if they'd stop acting like a bunch of corrupt bureaucrats.

Ryan

[PbyCat-Guy]

"Ah that song. My mother used to call down from her room and make me play it over and over. I used to get so sick of it. Not her though. SHe would listen to it for hours."

This movie SUCKS! But on a serious note, I hope they get her back home to the states.

[hang the expense]

Hope she makes it out soon in spite of the efforts of those who want SG to stay put in the swamp.You know who I am talking about.

[Mark_Pilkington]

Well, it looks to me like some folks are trying hard to sabotage any work that could be done. I saw two related items within the last two weeks.
I don't want to post the source, because I think anything posted here could be used against those I hope to see succeed. I do wonder about some US (and other) individuals who's actions make me think that they really believe the plane would be better off out there in the jungle.
Yes, it's valuable, but it's value is to a limited group of people, and I believe that these folks are giving the people overseas a fairy tale that is nothing more than way to reach some other (I know not what) end, that probably benefits someone else.
What's really odd is that from all appearances, the folks out there really stand to benefit from the deal, if they'd stop acting like a bunch of corrupt bureaucrats.

Ryan

Ryan,

I'm not sure if thats to suggest my post is somehow contributing to that sabatoge (intentionally or not)?,

so just to put it on the record, I have and do support the retention and restoration of some of these relics in the region of the battlefield, and am dis-appointed PNG does not have the resources to recover/restore and display some of this wartime heritage itself, (and yes, even to leave some of the wreckage in place if thats all its fit for) but the country has far more pressing issues and demands on its funds to be able to achieve that. I certainly support the recovery of rare and viable restoration projects such as Swamp Ghost rather than let them rot away in the bush, or worse be scrapped by the locals, which unfortunately is the real future of many of the wrecks. It is a pity PNG has not invested sufficient administrative resources to manage a take a few and return one recovery system similar to that undertaken for the A20's by the RAAF, providing a possible win win for every one.

What I have opposed previously here, is a view that all WW2 wreckage in the PNG is the property and heritage of the USA and that there is no PNG heritage rights exist, or are derived from being the battlefield, ie the place where it happened. Ie implying the country of location has no rights to apply heritage limitations to exports, an attitude sometimes also applied to other countries including my own.

If PNG really had the interest, resources, and ability to restore, display and protect Swamp Ghost I would support its retention in PNG, however thats not the reality, or ability of PNG today.

I do hope Swamp Ghost will be released for export and restored, rather than being left to die quickly near the port in Lae, by loss, pilfering and scrapping slowly by stealth whereever it might be stored, or by slow corrosion and souvenir hunting or moonlight scrapping where it sat in the swamp.


The real decisions about releasing Swamp Ghost have to happen in PNG, not elsewhere such as internet forums based on our views and opinions. To influence that decision or sabotage hopes of its export, you would need to have the ear of important PNG Bureaucrats, Politicians pushing your arguments against export (or the Judiciary, if it went to court).

Unfortunately the one way to really undermine that process is to start flinging comments about corruption freely about, even here on the internet simply because the answer is not what is wanted, as the largest insult you can give a Politician/Bureaucrat is to imply they are corrupt or can be bought?, particularly if they happen to be one of those rare ones who are honest!, and that can harden their views against outcomes, rather than be open to them?

My thread here was due to the apparant quoted PNG newspaper report of September 2008 that implied at least one PNG committee etc had changed its mind to let it be exported. This was the first I had heard of such a decision, and the last reported here in Wix was that it was clear to come home? (perhaps based on the same decision? in 2008?).

In anycase that appears to be the last report on the Pacific wrecks site, and yet its nearly 16 months later?, and my thread here is simply an inquiry to know if it was being exported or still hung up in political / legal battles?, and not part of any efforts to influence the outcome, other than support a prompt and responsible one for the future of the aircraft.

regards

Mark Pilkington

[DaveM2]

The aircraft is in a secure compound last I heard, as for anything else, news will be released when it happens.

Dave

[RyanShort1]

Mark,

Thanks for your comments. If any PNG officials are reading this, that corruption comment was not intended for any particular person, but rather a comment of what it looks like from this vantage point... It looks like some people think one thing, and others thing something different. I also suspect that the recovery group, while probably not perfect, didn't spend a ton of money to go over there and start working on it with the understanding that they'd be tied up like this.
Clearly at least one group was wrong as the current PNG folks say that the permit was illegally given to the recovery group.
I'm not sure I think that every bit of war surplus belongs to the US taxpayers either, but on the other hand, I'm not sure that any government should have the right to declare by fiat that all of the war materials belong to them and cannot be taken back to their country of origin if said country, or members thereof decide to responsibly remove the items, especially if country where they lie is not really doing anything to preserve them, or at least prevent them from being an environmental hazard.

BTW, I'm not anti-Pacific Wrecks and got a nice email from Justin last night, that did help clarify a bit of my thoughts on the matter. I still can't figure out why certain other groups are involved, though. It almost seems to me that there are some other personal interests or conflicts involved that we aren't hearing about - perhaps if we knew why, we'd all feel differently about the situation.

Here was the lastest PW press release: http://theswampghost.com/news/2010/pc-01-17/ If I read that with the proper understanding, it looks like some money that the locals were supposed to get, through the local officials, has never gotten to them.

Ryan

[Mark_Pilkington]

Ryan

Thanks for that, I hadnt seen that January 2010 update either, it seems its still a mess with multiple layers of PNG representatives involved from Minister down?? Hopefully the remaining issues can be quickly resolved and the aircraft released. (I had to do a double take reading that link, to accept this saga goes back to 2006!)

The fundamental problem with this situation is that the recovery team did think they had permission to recover it, the legal authority of those in PNG who gave permission, is the source of the ongoing arguments.

As I said if the PNG government actually had the time, resources and interest to articulate a policy and process that permitted recoveries with some level of "restoration and return" obligations for exhibits to be retained for the PNG they could be actually preserving most of the valuable heritage and building a future collection for themselves??

I am particularly saddened by the apparant ongoing loss of rare Japanese wrecks, particularly twins, in PNG making certain types extinct from static survivors, where as if the PNG recovery laws where encouraging and workable, a concerted effort by Japanese Government/Corporate Sponsors or Business Men could be rounding up Betty and Sally remains to create perhaps two or more examples for display in Japan and one to return to PNG.

Instead, with the local communities being able to undertake scrapping with petrol driven power tools, all the accessible and known wrecks are apparantly being converted to cash, lost to world heritage, not just PNG heritage.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

[kalamazookid]

It's in my garage.

[RyanShort1]

The fundamental problem with this situation is that the recovery team did think they had permission to recover it, the legal authority of those in PNG who gave permission, is the source of the ongoing arguments.

As I said if the PNG government actually had the time, resources and interest to articulate a policy and process that permitted recoveries with some level of "restoration and return" obligations for exhibits to be retained for the PNG they could be actually preserving most of the valuable heritage and building a future collection for themselves??

I am particularly saddened by the apparant ongoing loss of rare Japanese wrecks, particularly twins, in PNG making certain types extinct from static survivors, where as if the PNG recovery laws where encouraging and workable, a concerted effort by Japanese Government/Corporate Sponsors or Business Men could be rounding up Betty and Sally remains to create perhaps two or more examples for display in Japan and one to return to PNG.

Instead, with the local communities being able to undertake scrapping with petrol driven power tools, all the accessible and known wrecks are apparantly being converted to cash, lost to world heritage, not just PNG heritage.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

Exactly. If they are going to call them part of their national heritage and prevent people who are apparently trying to restore them properly from doing so when they at least THOUGHT they were doing it legally, then they need to not be hypocritical and take pro-active measures for the other wrecks that aren't so high-profile. I'm afraid that this particular case is just so high-profile that different parties are just positioning to profit from it as much as possible without regard for the actual wreck, which will likely be taken care of just fine if it ever leaves.
I don't question the motives of those I do not know, but it LOOKS like a mess from this vantage point, and I hope they can find a good and reasonable solution.

Ryan