Spitfire Report As Requested

[Bill Greenwood]

A number of people have asked on WIX about my Spitfire.
I did put something on a week or two back on the Maintenance topic, but here is a bit of an update.

I have not done a full report like Gary did with the LB, oops, B-24. Much of that is because the sight of the plane as damaged is very tough for me to look at. I have only been to Ray's shop once since it was returned to Colorado. There is quite a bit of damage to the left wing, some to the right, two broken prop blades, gear mount, flaps, etc. It is especially hard to look at since just before the accident it was in really nice shape,. we had even washed it and really cleaned it up for the show. It was running and flying well, no major problems. The fuselage looks pretty much the same, but without the wings.
Tim may have taken photos as they go, but I really haven't asked them to. They have plenty to do.

Work began on it full time about June. I am sure they have done a lot, I get big bills each month, last one was $13,625. I hope we are near the stage where they are reassembling the wings. I asked Tim if they could finish the right one first, but they prefer all the wing work as one together and that makes sense.

I don't have a timetable, any such claim or projection would be a guess. I recall years ago some guys were restoring a MK V. They were computer experts and had a impressive plan and timetable. But it had no contact with reality, and the plane was finished years later by others.

I have said many prayers of thanks that no one was injured, and I am also glad that there are folks like QG who can fix it. I hope to fly it again in a few years.

And thanks to all your good wishes on site or by PM. It's always good to hear something nice, even if I know it is mostly about the airplane. As for those who don't like me,don't really believe in free speech, and wanted me censored, I am surprised they haven't made their complaints public. I'd guess they've done their griping about me in private to Scott,etc. There is little respect lost between JDK and me, don't think that will ever change, but at least he made the effort to introduce himself at Oshkosh and no harm done by that.

Gary's loss has made me think a lot. I don't have the right words, but I have some sense that those of us in aviation, in warbirds, are perhaps part of something larger. I never was close to the spot on WIX that Gary filled, and nobody else was either, but I did share some of this feeling with some, maybe most of you. I still think there are many larger issues out there and sweeping them under the rug is not a position of integrity, it is not being a good citizen. I think it was perhaps JFK or RFK, that it was written on his tombstone, "He saw wrong and tried to right it." I don't think I'll have any big thing written on mine, unless my kids put "He saw chocolate chip cookies and tried to eat them all", but If all I had on mine was that "He was not unruly", then I would not have amounted to much. And yes, I looked up the definition of 'unruly". It means undisciplined, not subject to government control. I have certainly tried to have discipline in my flying. As for control, I think most people work better when convinced than just controlled by an government.

[PbyCat-Guy]

It's good to see you back on here. Nice post. Take care, and keep us posted.

[Warbird Kid]

I wrote a long post, then it came on as a double post. When I tried to edit and cancel the 2nd one, it took both out. I.m too tired to redo it now.

Boy do I hate it when then that happens!

[JDK]

There is little respect lost between JDK and me, don't think that will ever change, but at least he made the effort to introduce himself at Oshkosh and no harm done by that.

Dear Bill,
I offered, on WIX, to put our differences behind us, to buy you a beer and to discuss or just shake hands over the issue when I saw you next.

As I offered, while I was at Oshkosh, and when I had more enjoyable things to do, and people who wanted to talk to me, I bought you a beer, and offered to shake - but you said no, as you are entitled to do. For me there is an end of the matter. I've stated multiple times I don't wish to go on about it, and have only responded, as here, when my name is brought up.

As is often said, it takes two to tango. I think it's time to move on to more important things, and I'd appreciate it if you would do so also.

As I've said before, I'm delighted that you are in the process of rebuilding your Spitfire, and I wish you all the best and look forward to the day you take it to the air again. You have - as anyone does here - my support in WIX when the matter is warbirds.

Yours sincerely,

[Ztex]

Topic merged and cleaned up a bit....

AND...lets move on shall we?



Thanks for the report Bill!
Z

[Jack Cook]

Bill,
Any word on the Merlin?? Or the remaining blades or the prop hub.
When they've removed the old metal to replace it i'll take my square
about 3'' x 3'' with a signature on back please.
Just like the one I got from Gary

[T33driver]

A number of people have asked on WIX about my Spitfire.
I did put something on a week or two back on the Maintenance topic, but here is a bit of an update.

I have not done a full report like Gary did with the LB, oops, B-24. Much of that is because the sight of the plane as damaged is very tough for me to look at. I have only been to Ray's shop once since it was returned to Colorado. There is quite a bit of damage to the left wing, some to the right, two broken prop blades, gear mount, flaps, etc. It is especially hard to look at since just before the accident it was in really nice shape,. we had even washed it and really cleaned it up for the show. It was running and flying well, no major problems. The fuselage looks pretty much the same, but without the wings.
Tim may have taken photos as they go, but I really haven't asked them to. They have plenty to do.

Work began on it full time about June. I am sure they have done a lot, I get big bills each month, last one was $13,625. I hope we are near the stage where they are reassembling the wings. I asked Tim if they could finish the right one first, but they prefer all the wing work as one together and that makes sense.

I don't have a timetable, any such claim or projection would be a guess. I recall years ago some guys were restoring a MK V. They were computer experts and had a impressive plan and timetable. But it had no contact with reality, and the plane was finished years later by others.

I have said many prayers of thanks that no one was injured, and I am also glad that there are folks like QG who can fix it. I hope to fly it again in a few years.

And thanks to all your good wishes on site or by PM. It's always good to hear something nice, even if I know it is mostly about the airplane. As for those who don't like me,don't really believe in free speech, and wanted me censored, I am surprised they haven't made their complaints public. I'd guess they've done their griping about me in private to Scott,etc. There is little respect lost between JDK and me, don't think that will ever change, but at least he made the effort to introduce himself at Oshkosh and no harm done by that.

Gary's loss has made me think a lot. I don't have the right words, but I have some sense that those of us in aviation, in warbirds, are perhaps part of something larger. I never was close to the spot on WIX that Gary filled, and nobody else was either, but I did share some of this feeling with some, maybe most of you. I still think there are many larger issues out there and sweeping them under the rug is not a position of integrity, it is not being a good citizen. I think it was perhaps JFK or RFK, that it was written on his tombstone, "He saw wrong and tried to right it." I don't think I'll have any big thing written on mine, unless my kids put "He saw chocolate chip cookies and tried to eat them all", but If all I had on mine was that "He was not unruly", then I would not have amounted to much. And yes, I looked up the definition of 'unruly". It means undisciplined, not subject to government control. I have certainly tried to have discipline in my flying. As for control, I think most people work better when convinced than just controlled by an government.

Bill, I like your rugged individualist sensibility, y'all are a Texan through and through now aincha son? If I didn't know any better, I'd guess you have a scoped Weatherby .300 Magnum rifle on a rack in your Ford F-150...or is it a Volvo wagon...either way... I think most of America's founding fathers were pretty unruly. Read some of Jefferson's quotes and it'd be easy to imagine him today being labeled by today's pols from both sides of the aisle as an extremist, intolerant, inflammatory, seething anti-gov't nut with crazy Federalist delusions. My kinda guy. As a retired Air Force officer, serving under guys like him would've given me peace of mind. Thanks for the report and I hope to see you flying the Spit soon even it looks like someone stole the Pope's mitre headgear, filleted it and stuck each half on either side of the fuselage.

[mustangdriver]

Bill, as you know, I am happy to see you back. I too am glad no one got hurt, and that the Spit is being rebuilt. I am happy to count you among my friends. During some of the rough times I went through the last few years, WIX actually helped me forget about my problems a bit. Now that my life is turned around, I can appreciate the friends I have made here.

[P51Mstg]

Bill:

I don't get on here as much as I used to. Really glad to have you back, you are one of a kind and enough like me that it isn't even funny. Hope the Spitfire goes OK and there is cash available to pay for it in a timely manner to keep it on track. You aren't getting any younger (not that you are much older than me) and those potential flying days are ticking off.

I've been through paying for major airplane work (although I never seemed to see a bill as SMALL as $13k.......) and its hard to do. Its something that most people on here can't really understand. I've tried to explain it to the locals as "think that everytime you hit START; its like putting a new transmission in your car".

I can imagine its really hard to look at it, but it will get better (the airplane that is). Its like the $6Million Man; "DUDE WE CAN FIX IT" (or was it Fast Times At Ridgemont High?).

Best wishes

Mark H

[Bill Greenwood]

I guess what I was trying to say about something like Gary's loss is that we in warbirds and perhaps on WIX are part of the same community. When I played football, I may not have liked or even agreed with all my teamates, but we were unitied in the same purpose.

Team is a little too strong for what we are as WIX members, but community may be the right word. We have a common interest, even if we may not have the same emphasis on the specifics and if we may differ vastly as to other beliefs, etc.

One of the things I enjoy about going to Oskosh is the feeling that for a few days you are part of a small town where everyone is sort of like you, kiind of like a college weekend for adults.

When the Spitfire is farther along, when the wings are closed up and look like they should, I'll try to get some photos to post on WIX. And you can bet I will when it is back on the gear.

As for parts, I may try to find a place to market some of the broken parts like prop blades or rib bits, etc. if their is any demand for them.

And guys thanks for all the nice comments, most eveyone is human and appreciates that. I have met some nice folks on WIX. Why don't all you guys come out and go skiing?

[Bill Greenwood]

For Jack,: two of the prop blades are broken, two are ok. BUT it is good practice to replace them as a set, so there's another $60K or so that will be due. The old ones may have some value.

Ray already had the prop hub magnifluxed or xrayed or wahtever in Minn. when he was up there with a Fairy Firefly prop and it is unharmed. It is a rare and expensive item.

I expect that the Merliin in unharmed,since it was at idle from short final on and the wood props tend to cushion any impact. However it is high time, near a thousand hours. Since it would be prudent to have it checked before flight, I expect we will have a full overhaul when the time comes for that. There is a big expense and paying for it will be an obstacle. It was running well when I flew it last, just had a few oil leaks.

[ZRX61]

I expect that the Merliin in unharmed,since it was at idle from short final on and the wood props tend to cushion any impact. However it is high time, near a thousand hours.

I assume the heads & banks have been done in that time?

[Robbie Stuart]

Bill, thanks for the update. Sounds like this is going to be a long painful deal.
Regards
Robbie

[Bill Greenwood]

No, ZR861, the head and banks are the same time as the rest of the engine. The engine seems to have plenty of compression, I don't see much evidence that the cylinders are worn. Unlike many Mustangs and other inline warbirds, I normally use low rpm unless I am climbing or doing acro. My normal cross country is at 1800 rpm. Think how much less piston travel there is at 1800 over the years vs a Packard running 2400. I know that some folks say you get detonation if you don't cruise at higher rpm, but that has not been my experience. Some people like Jack Roush advocate using a richer mixture in the Packard Merlin in the 51 on the theory that modern 100 low lead fuel does not have adequate octane. This is a good theory, but I am not sure I agree at least for my Spitfire. Remember that I am using a Rolls Merlin, and Spitfires unlike Mustangs do not have a separate mixture control. Mixture is all automatic in Spitfires, it richens as the throttle is opened. I haven't seen any real hard evidence of this about the 100 L L. I think the Rolls Merlin began the war running about 100 octane, and the high octane with the extra lead did not even come into use until the last year or so or the war, which allowed use of higher power. But in economy cruise, one is using only partial power and it does not seem to me that higher octane is a necessity. One guy runs his one way and it works for him so he believes in that method over any other. I know many 51 pilots who like 20w-60w engine oil, whereas the guys at Stallion 51 like single grade 120w and some in England still use 100 mineral oil, not even AD.

Wasn't it a famous guy who drank a brandy every night before bed to keep the pink elephants away and it worked for him, he never had a pachyderm problem.

Who really knows, there are theories, but unlike the wartime days when Rolls and I assume Packard engines running on test beds non stop; no one today is going to take a dozen fresh Merlins and run half them at lean cruise and half at rich high rpm cruise to destruction and then analyze the engine after teardown.

Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[henning]

Thanks for the update bill, Glad to have you back. Hope things all come together well and to see you
back in the air at OSH once again soon.