Did women ever do any North Atlantic ferrys during WW II??

[Steve Crewdog]

I know they did a lot of it in the domestic US, but I don't think they did during the war. Thoughts??

TIA,

Steve

[jet1]

..but then...

http://www.wingsacrossamerica.us/

[IndyJen]

Jackie Cochran did, of course, and the ATA continued to do so. Those Hudsons aren't going to fly themselves across.

Here's a nice Pathe newsreel of Jackie after arrival. She acquits herself very nicely, too:

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=12761

[Steve Crewdog]

PERFECT!! Many Thanks!!!!

[John Dupre]

I thought that US female pilots were forbidden to fly in war zones so that they were effectively restricted to the CONUS. Was Jacqueline Cochran even a WASP? I thought she had some sort of competing operation. In any event she was always a special case since she knew so many military types so well she could always get her way.

[JDK]

I thought that US female pilots were forbidden to fly in war zones so that they were effectively restricted to the CONUS. Was Jacqueline Cochran even a WASP? I thought she had some sort of competing operation. In any event she was always a special case since she knew so many military types so well she could always get her way.

Quick bit of research shows she was a WASP - more like a queen bee - and American Women did fly for the ATA in Britain:

Before the United States joined World War II, she was part of "Wings for Britain", an organization that ferried American built aircraft to Britain, becoming the first woman to fly a bomber, (a Lockheed Hudson V) across the Atlantic. In Britain, she volunteered her services to the Royal Air Force. For several months she worked for the British Air Transport Auxiliary (ATA), recruiting qualified women pilots in the United States and taking them to England where they joined the Air Transport Auxiliary.[6] In September 1940, with the war raging throughout Europe, Jackie Cochran wrote to Eleanor Roosevelt to introduce the proposal of starting a women's flying division in the Army Air Forces. She felt that qualified women pilots could do all of the domestic, noncombat aviation jobs necessary in order to release more male pilots for combat. She pictured herself in command of these women, with the same standings as Oveta Culp Hobby, who was then in charge of the Women's Auxiliary Army Corps (WAAC). (The WAAC was given full military status on July 1, 1943, thus making them part of the Army. At the same time, the unit was renamed Women's Army Corps [WAC].)
...
...Also in June 1941, [General Hap] Arnold suggested that Cochran take a group of qualified female pilots to see how the British were doing. He promised her that no decisions regarding women flying for the USAAF would be made until she returned.

When General Arnold asked Cochran to go to Britain to study the ATA, she asked seventy-six of the most qualified female pilots – identified during the research she had done earlier for Colonel Robert Olds – to come along and fly for the ATA. Qualifications for these women were high – at least 300 hours of flying time, but most of the women pilots had over 1,000 hours. Their dedication was high as well, they had to foot the bill for travel from New York for an interview and to Montreal for a physical exam and flight check. Those that made it to Canada found out that the washout rate was also high. Twenty-five women passed the tests, and two months later, in March 1942 they went to Britain with Cochran to join the ATA.
...
While Cochran was in England, in September 1942, General Arnold authorized the formation of the Women's Auxiliary Ferrying Squadron (WAFS) under the direction of Nancy Harkness Love. The WAFS began at Castle Air Base in Wilmington, Delaware with a handpicked group of female pilots whose objective was to ferry military aircraft. Hearing about the WAFS, Cochran immediately returned from England. Cochran's experience in Britain with the ATA convinced her that women pilots could be trained to do much more than ferrying. Lobbying General Arnold for expanded flying opportunities for female pilots, he sanctioned the creation of the Women's Flying Training Detachment (WFTD), headed by Cochran. In August 1943, the WAFS and the WFTD merged to create the Women Airforce Service Pilots (WASP) with Cochran as director and Nancy Love as head of the ferrying division.[7]

As director of the Women Airforce Service Pilots, she supervised the training of hundreds of women pilots at the former Avenger Field in Sweetwater, Texas. For her war efforts, she received the Distinguished Service Medal[6][8] and the Distinguished Flying Cross.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_Cochran

Interesting stuff.

Looks to me like the women did operate in the UK, but did not ferry aircraft transatlantic, excepting Cochran's own Hudson flight.

The bit of film IndyJen pointed out is a great item, and fascinating for Cochran's speech as well as the other reasons. We are a long way from the 1940s in spoken English!

Regards,

[rreis]

Cochran didn't fly with the ATA, she was doing her bit of politics in the UK but the womem she brought with her did fly and many stayed with the ATA (and even married in the UK afterwards) instead of going back to join the WASP. There is an excellent book about the ATA ("Spitfire Women of World War II, by Giles Whittell), detailing this and more.

The flight of Cochran across the pond is an adventure in itself, because she suffered from sabotage by her male pilots counterparts during the crossing, it was no "easy cake". The history of the WASP is also about the rivalry and different visions that Cochran and Nancy had on the subject. On a bigger role, it's also about the place of women in America and their fight to do "what man does". It's a sure telling sign that around the time when the war changed it's course there was an appeal on the Senate to recognize these women as military. They were doing all the stuff military pilots did, having to submit to military discipline but without any of it's compensations. They needed to wait for the 70s for having their situation amended. The powerful "man" lobby couldn't be broken before. Sad, but true. The USSR was surely a miserable country but at least women did more rights than in the US and UK (although I'm not so naive to say they were treated in the same level. But they did fight against the Germans). This is, indeed an interesting subject. I've read a research paper on the politics of the state connected to women role in WWII in the US. The main conclusions are:

- initial phase: propaganda directed to encourage women to take man jobs at factories, to help the war effort;
- last phase: propaganda directed for women to go home and nurse the men coming back from the war, a preparation for what can be perceived as the perfect 50s housewife

(ref: "Experiment in the Cockipt: the women airforce service pilots of WWII", Katherine Landdeck, in the book "The Airplane in American Culture", edited by Dominick A. Pisano)


PS: JDK, the women in the ATA didn't go across the pond but they did fly into war zone after the Invasion. They ferried to France. But only after the death of Sir Leigh-Mallory who was a strong misogynist and vetoed those kind of operations...

best regards,

(edit for typos)

Last edited by rreis on Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

[JDK]

PS: JDK, the women in the ATA didn't go across the pond but they did fly into war zone after the Invasion. They ferried to France. But only after the death of Sir Leigh-Mallory who was a strong misogynist and vetoed those kind of operations...

Thanks for those insights, very interesting. Who knows where an innocent question might lead!

Interesting as to reactions when you compate the women's and the Tuskegee airmen's experiences of discrimination in W.W.II.

Regards,