Petition NMUSAF to add a C-130E to its collection
Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:16 pm
Tell someone you're a C-130 driver and they'll usually ask if you flew gunships. Yeah, gunships, Talons, tankers, and ABCCC are cool variants, but the overwhelming majority of the fleet is made up of slick trash-hauler. Given the number of aging C-130E's being retired to AMARC, I know someone's got the pull to divert a notable E-model to the museum and get her indoors and preserved as-is. Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Cold War, Desert Storm, the Drug War, Iraq, Afghanistan, you name it, the slicks were there. Let's petition the General at NMUSAF to snag an E-model before they're all gone. Here's a candidate:
http://www.aviation.com/flying/080416-c ... tches.html
http://www.aviation.com/flying/080416-c ... tches.html
Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:02 pm
great idea, i saw them at tucson a year ago and i was thinking the same thing. they might only be able to park it outside for now. but like the man said. get one [or a few] now before it's too late.
Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:22 pm
did you fly gunships?
Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:46 pm
I'm just amazed that anyone in the USAF recognized that there might be a historically-significant aircraft out there on the line.
Bravo -- let's save this one before it gets forgotten about.
Bravo -- let's save this one before it gets forgotten about.
C-130E petition
Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:38 pm
Could this be the same group from WIX that continues to bash the Good General and his band of chain saw villians? And now we should petition him to save a C-130E for the NMUSAF? Remember, the General may also read the post on WIX, good or bad.
Jaybo
Jaybo
Re: C-130E petition
Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:23 am
Muddy - 
No, but thanks for stirring the pot.
I hope he reads WIX, although I doubt it. I can't speak for anyone else, but the main constructive criticism I've had for NMUSAF was: get airplanes indoors asap, pump up all the flat struts on display aircraft, and don't paint the ceiling black - oh, and get a C-130E before AMARC dorks up the paint scheme with spraylat which will require a subsequent repaint and expensive restoration. Saving the birds at Barksdale and keeping SSSB in Dayton would be on the list as well.
Despite all the ribbing the General gets, I suppose that he's spent an entire professional lifetime dealing with big decisions and the inevitable dissent that comes with them. I assume he also is professional enough to take the criticism and suggestions as such, not as personal attacks. Those delivered as personal attacks are likely discarded. A guy at his level of the game doesn't likely lie awake at night worried about who on WIX doesn't care for his policies. I assume he's doing the best he can - and if you're convinced he's not, then contact his boss and get him replaced.
From my perspective they've done much more good than bad with a not-unlimited budget so I'm willing to lend my support and I'll still feel free to make input when I see the need.
Ken
Jay wrote:Could this be the same group from WIX that continues to bash the Good General and his band of chain saw villians?
No, but thanks for stirring the pot.
Jay wrote: Remember, the General may also read the post on WIX, good or bad.
I hope he reads WIX, although I doubt it. I can't speak for anyone else, but the main constructive criticism I've had for NMUSAF was: get airplanes indoors asap, pump up all the flat struts on display aircraft, and don't paint the ceiling black - oh, and get a C-130E before AMARC dorks up the paint scheme with spraylat which will require a subsequent repaint and expensive restoration. Saving the birds at Barksdale and keeping SSSB in Dayton would be on the list as well.
Despite all the ribbing the General gets, I suppose that he's spent an entire professional lifetime dealing with big decisions and the inevitable dissent that comes with them. I assume he also is professional enough to take the criticism and suggestions as such, not as personal attacks. Those delivered as personal attacks are likely discarded. A guy at his level of the game doesn't likely lie awake at night worried about who on WIX doesn't care for his policies. I assume he's doing the best he can - and if you're convinced he's not, then contact his boss and get him replaced.
From my perspective they've done much more good than bad with a not-unlimited budget so I'm willing to lend my support and I'll still feel free to make input when I see the need.
Ken
Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:09 pm
I did email the NMUSAF asking if there was a plan to add a C-130E. I think it's appropriate to share this response I received from the Senior Curator:
"Yes, we've had, and are having, discussions on this topic. It is
something that is being considered but we must also address finding the
exhibit space in either current of future buildings to properly protect
and display the aircraft. Hopefully, our 4th building will create the
opportunities that we are seeking. As it is already planned to contain a
C-5, C-141, KC-135, presidential aircraft collections, etc., space is
already dear.
In the meantime, we're most appreciative of your suggested tail number.
Please feel free to recommend any other notibles that you might
encounter.
Best regards . . .
Terry
"Yes, we've had, and are having, discussions on this topic. It is
something that is being considered but we must also address finding the
exhibit space in either current of future buildings to properly protect
and display the aircraft. Hopefully, our 4th building will create the
opportunities that we are seeking. As it is already planned to contain a
C-5, C-141, KC-135, presidential aircraft collections, etc., space is
already dear.
In the meantime, we're most appreciative of your suggested tail number.
Please feel free to recommend any other notibles that you might
encounter.
Best regards . . .
Terry
Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:59 pm
Terry A. Very nice person there for sure.
Re: C-130E petition
Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:43 pm
Jay wrote:Could this be the same group from WIX that continues to bash the Good General and his band of chain saw villians? And now we should petition him to save a C-130E for the NMUSAF? Remember, the General may also read the post on WIX, good or bad.
Jaybo
Good point. Quick, someone start a rumor that NASM has its eyes on "Patches".
Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:36 pm
Ken,
Good thought, good post, and a good summary of the nature of the kind of people needed to run major aircraft museums.
Jay - thankfully not everyone agrees on WIX. Bashing Mustangdriver rather than addressing complaints to achieving change is just hot air - as some of those who understandably vent here having been obstructed in their real work by NMUSAF policies know. What matters isn't the noise anyone makes here, but the action behind, much of which we don't see.
While I agree with you regarding the theoretical competencies, I can think of a couple of other museum directors in post in major national collections who are well past their sell by date, and while they've done good work in the past, they are simply obstructing the space an incumbent with a 21st century attitude should be working in. No names no pack drill, but getting rid of someone off the boil in these positions is certainly harder than it should be - the 'should be' being for the benefit of the collection.
But that's all pretty O/T.
On topic, the RAAF Museum has a C-130A used to provide hands on experience for schoolgroups, and a C-130E cocooned for display in such time as the museum has a building big enough to house it.
So there will be a C-130E on show...
The RAAF Museum has a policy of any air force retired aircraft having a significant example retired to the collection - a policy I think other force museums have, such as (I think) the RAF Museum and the Canadian National Aviation Collection. I'd be surprised if the NMUSAF doesn't have something similar, accepting of course the greater range of types operated by the USAF than most other current air forces. It gets tricky when you start looking at sub-types and models, rather than one example of the type overall. The RAAF Museum has just taken delivery of an F-111G, but also has a F-111C (the Australian version) 'on order', both versions having significant and different history to represent. But we are still waiting to get one P-40 on show (an example being under restoration) arguably Australia's most significant combat-experienced fighter type. The then and now dilemma of type availability.
Anyway. What other tail numbers would you consider worth putting forward?
As to the 'has it got guns' obsession of boys small and large, without logistics there'd be no glamour boys making the whizzy-bangy noises at the front end... Something the school groups touring the RAAF Museum's C-130A get told.
Just a few thoughts.
Good thought, good post, and a good summary of the nature of the kind of people needed to run major aircraft museums.
Jay - thankfully not everyone agrees on WIX. Bashing Mustangdriver rather than addressing complaints to achieving change is just hot air - as some of those who understandably vent here having been obstructed in their real work by NMUSAF policies know. What matters isn't the noise anyone makes here, but the action behind, much of which we don't see.
While I agree with you regarding the theoretical competencies, I can think of a couple of other museum directors in post in major national collections who are well past their sell by date, and while they've done good work in the past, they are simply obstructing the space an incumbent with a 21st century attitude should be working in. No names no pack drill, but getting rid of someone off the boil in these positions is certainly harder than it should be - the 'should be' being for the benefit of the collection.
But that's all pretty O/T.
On topic, the RAAF Museum has a C-130A used to provide hands on experience for schoolgroups, and a C-130E cocooned for display in such time as the museum has a building big enough to house it.
So there will be a C-130E on show...
The RAAF Museum has a policy of any air force retired aircraft having a significant example retired to the collection - a policy I think other force museums have, such as (I think) the RAF Museum and the Canadian National Aviation Collection. I'd be surprised if the NMUSAF doesn't have something similar, accepting of course the greater range of types operated by the USAF than most other current air forces. It gets tricky when you start looking at sub-types and models, rather than one example of the type overall. The RAAF Museum has just taken delivery of an F-111G, but also has a F-111C (the Australian version) 'on order', both versions having significant and different history to represent. But we are still waiting to get one P-40 on show (an example being under restoration) arguably Australia's most significant combat-experienced fighter type. The then and now dilemma of type availability.
Anyway. What other tail numbers would you consider worth putting forward?
As to the 'has it got guns' obsession of boys small and large, without logistics there'd be no glamour boys making the whizzy-bangy noises at the front end... Something the school groups touring the RAAF Museum's C-130A get told.
Just a few thoughts.
Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:35 pm
I tried hard to get this one saved (see link below) a few years ago but failed. I even got some semi-hostile responses about it here on WIX. It's still sitting in AMARC but will be broken up any time... 
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... sc&start=0
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... sc&start=0
Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:02 pm
No matter what your views are of that mission, it is a part of very important history. this aircraft deserves to be saved. Ken, they asked for more Serial Numbers that you might think could be worth saving. Any chance you would be willing to e-mail Terry again and add this one to the list?
???
Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:24 am
Terry A. Very nice person there for sure.
He was a WO in the OR NG assigned to the OR Military Museum.
He left for greener pastures and the mueseum here is still in a quonset hut.
Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:30 am
He has always been a super nice guy, and will answer just about any question you thow at him. He knows his stuff. That is cool that he was out your way before.
Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:02 am
Scott is right, the EC-130 is a worthy candidate. Over the years I've read everything I could get my hands on regarding Credible Sport and Eagle Claw. There are lessons to be learned and valor to be honored. I think it'd make a great display at any museum, including NMUSAF.
Honestly, though, I won't be forwarding that tail number for two overall reasons. First it's not a slick C-130E, and second, seeing Scott's photos, it's already way beyond "straight off the line, time capsule" condition. Doesn't mean it's not worth saving; it's been some time, maybe Pima should be given another call.
Ken
Honestly, though, I won't be forwarding that tail number for two overall reasons. First it's not a slick C-130E, and second, seeing Scott's photos, it's already way beyond "straight off the line, time capsule" condition. Doesn't mean it's not worth saving; it's been some time, maybe Pima should be given another call.
Ken