Pathfinder B-17G training ship

[K5DH]

Here's a much-enlarged scan of an original snapshot that I bought off eBay this week, showing a Pathfinder radar-equipped B-17G Flying Fortress. It is apparently an unarmed, Stateside training ship. The photo clearly shows the H2X "Mickey" radome installed where the ball turret would normally be. The original snapshot measures 4-1/2" wide by 3-1/2" high. There is no writing on the back, and the seller had no information on it. I can't read the identification on the nose of the bomber, either. It's definitely not Chuckie . Of particular interest is the second astrodome installed above the flight deck in place of the top turret. This ship definitely has the late-war SCR-522 VHF comm radio set installed (the whip antenna on top of the nose tells that story). It may not have the long-range SCR-287 comm radio set installed. At the very least, it doesn't have the usual trailing wire antenna; there is no "bomber egg" visible at the end of the F-10A feedthru tube.



Cheers!

Last edited by K5DH on Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

[CrewDawg]

Don't let Doc see this, we'll never get the chin turrett put back on!!

Great photo Dean! Thanks for sharing.

[K5DH]

Don't let Doc see this, we'll never get the chin turrett put back on!!

Doc is fully aware that most PFF Forts had their chin turrets removed to increase their speed. When deployed, the H2X radome shaved 15 MPH off the bombers' speed. Removing the chin turret brought their speed back up to match that of the rest of the formation. The turrets were removed in the field. All PFF ships were delivered fully armed.

Cheers,

[Second Air Force]

Dean,

Is it possible that the photo is of a 301st Bomb Group airplane? The background scenery and PSP taxiway are similar to Italian airfield photos I've seen. The same seller had another photo of a 301st aircraft with combat damage that makes me wonder if your picture was taken in the combat zone.

Neat picture either way!
Scott

[K5DH]

Dean,

Is it possible that the photo is of a 301st Bomb Group airplane? The background scenery and PSP taxiway are similar to Italian airfield photos I've seen. The same seller had another photo of a 301st aircraft with combat damage that makes me wonder if your picture was taken in the combat zone.

Neat picture either way!
Scott

Your guess is as good a mine, Scott. I agree about the PSP and scenery. However, I have to wonder: why would the 301st have operated a totally unarmed ship with no long-range radio in a combat theatre? Perhaps it was serving as an in-theatre trainer? Maybe a war-weary hack? I guess we may never know. . .

Cheers,

[the330thbg]

Dean,

Is it possible that the photo is of a 301st Bomb Group airplane? The background scenery and PSP taxiway are similar to Italian airfield photos I've seen. The same seller had another photo of a 301st aircraft with combat damage that makes me wonder if your picture was taken in the combat zone.

Neat picture either way!
Scott

Agree Scott, the background and even the runway surface look quite crude for stateside!

This looks as combat zone as can be.

[Second Air Force]

Your guess is as good a mine, Scott. I agree about the PSP and scenery. However, I have to wonder: why would the 301st have operated a totally unarmed ship with no long-range radio in a combat theatre? Perhaps it was serving as an in-theatre trainer? Maybe a war-weary hack? I guess we may never know. . .

Cheers,

Near the end of hostilities they were stripping "normal" Fortresses of chin and ball turrets in at least one 8th AF Wing, so maybe they made this lead ship into a hot rod for similar reasons down in Italy. An alternative is that it may have been a demonstrator for 15th AF radar men that went from Group-to-Group.

Scott

[RAMC181]

The whip antenna above the nose seems to have been used with GEE sets on aircraft so equipped within the 8AF in England, the SCR-522 sets using the AN-104 antenna.

The pictured aircraft is also fitted with the AN/ARN-5 (RC-103) ILS "bull-horn" antenna for use with the SCS-51 Instrument Landing System.

All the best,
PB

[Ztex]

Great photo, good buy.

I think the landscape does look rather Italian as well. Interesting. I have read of navigation trainers and radar trainers but I think they were all stateside. I have also read about "wandering" lead crews with PFF airplanes going from squadron to squadron taking the bad weather flights.

As an aside, my uncle, who flew from Italy late in the war said that the only fighters they ever saw were a few that stayed way out of range and seemed to be tracking the formations. (One day it was a jet) The did have all their guns though and fired them every trip...just not in anger.

PS. Doc has never seemed very interested in a chin turret...I seem to remember him grumbling about the effect the top turret shell had on the feel of the airplane after it was installed...

[Taigh Ramey]

For what it's worth: the whip antenna on top of the nose is not for the VHF SCR-522 is is the sense antenna for the SCR-269 ADF. The directional "football" antenna can be seen on the bottom. The whip was also removeable in flight as some installations had them on the bottom and they could be removed before landing as they would hit the ground.

The SCR-522 usually used the AN-104 axe handle antenna which was mounted in the aft fuselage. Typically antennas exited the aircraft pretty close to the set.

I also see the weight of the trailing wire antenna below the star. You can also see the antenna for the Marker Beacon on the bottom as well.

She looks like she has a normal compliment of radio equipment to me.

[K5DH]

I'm learning a lot from this thread!

OK on the use of the AN-104A versus the whip for the SCR-522. Makes sense now that you've made me think about it.

I thought the sense antenna that went with the football was the wire that is strung fore-to-aft under the nose compartment. At least that's what I've always been told. Every B-17 had an ADF football; they did not all have the whip on the nose. More input, please!

I re-scanned the photo and blew it up to a HUGE size. I was wrong about the missing "bomber egg" on the end of the SCR-287's trailing wire antenna. It is present at the end of the F-10A; I just couldn't see it in the smaller image. The white "thing" that taigh pointed out below the belly is actually some object on the ground behind the airplane, perhaps a taxiway marker.

Here is the very large scanned image if anyone wants to look it over more closely:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188 ... _large.jpg

The ship is definitely unarmed (can't see the tail gun position, but I'm gonna guess there's nothing there either).

Cheers,

[RAMC181]

Is that a shroud over the exhaust pipe on No.2 engine I see?

[L. Thompson]

Some 301st BG PFF B-17G's included:

44-8105 of the 353rd BS
44-8182 of the 32nd BS "SUGAR REPORT"
44-8144 of the 352nd BS
44-8390 of the 353rd BS "GARBAGE CANNIE"
44-8656 (Squadron?)
44-8714 of the 419th BS
44-8733 of the 419th BS
44-8803 (Squadron?)
44-8815 (Squadron?)
44-8819 (Squadron?)

I think the seller on eBay had pics of 419th BS aircraft.

[CrewDawg]

The shroud is for the heating and ventilation system, heat is taken off of the exhaustfor haeting the fuselage (sort of).