Heritage Program goes Bye Bye

Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:46 am

Don't know if this has been reported here yet or not, but just in case...

If you like the USAF Heritage and USN Legacy Flight programs, you better catch one before this airshow season is over. Funding for these programs has been cut out completely for 2010, with no indication it will be picked up again after next year.

This probably also means that those wonderfully painted QF-4s from the 82ATS at Tyndall and Holloman won't be making many, if any, airshow appearences next year.

Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:05 am

I don't believe this is correct. The USAF has cut the civilian funding (in this climate who can blame them) but my understanding from ACC is that it's to proceed like it did in the 1990's.

Jim

67Cougar wrote:Don't know if this has been reported here yet or not, but just in case...

If you like the USAF Heritage and USN Legacy Flight programs, you better catch one before this airshow season is over. Funding for these programs has been cut out completely for 2010, with no indication it will be picked up again after next year.

This probably also means that those wonderfully painted QF-4s from the 82ATS at Tyndall and Holloman won't be making many, if any, airshow appearences next year.

Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:32 am

All I know is that a pilot in this program told me this yesterday. Also, if it does not have a civilian component, then it isn't a Heritage/Legacy Flight - the military doesn't operate warbirds, and a flyby of current operational aircraft is just that - a flyby.

Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:34 am

I'm in the program. It's not canceled.

67Cougar wrote:All I know is that a pilot in this program told me this yesterday. Also, if it does not have a civilian component, then it isn't a Heritage/Legacy Flight - the military doesn't operate warbirds, and a flyby of current operational aircraft is just that - a flyby.

Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:42 am

Does the civilian component have to pay for it's own participation?

If so, that will effectively kill it, unless there are a few well to do operators who can afford to spend their own money to do the performance. Those, I would think, are few and far between.

I'm not a pilot, just going by what a pilot who has been in the program for almost ten years told me. He was rather disgusted with the situation - their aircraft will not be participating without USAF and USN funding.

Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:06 am

When Shipley and I got the HF going in 96-97 we paid for it ourselves and did so for many years. If the HF is juxtaposed with the civilian demo it's not that much more flying and gets it done. I coordinate it so it's me, then the USAF jet(s), then the HF. So I have to hold a bit before starting the HF. I can handle that. For sure I would rather be getting paid, as it helps to defer the costs of these planes, but it's not going to stop me from participating.

67Cougar wrote:Does the civilian component have to pay for it's own participation?

If so, that will effectively kill it, unless there are a few well to do operators who can afford to spend their own money to do the performance. Those, I would think, are few and far between.

I'm not a pilot, just going by what a pilot who has been in the program for almost ten years told me. He was rather disgusted with the situation - their aircraft will not be participating without USAF and USN funding.

Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:16 am

I hope this is not the case. It has always surprised me that the USAF does not have an organisation that runs along the lines of the BBMF or the RNHF. That would be truly awesome. You are very fortunate to have so many great civilian poerations though, and you get to have rides in them (oh what wouldn't I give for that, the B-24 would be my first choice!!) Dream on, I suppose!!

Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:31 am

Jim, I understand, and I appreciate your willingess to do that. I sincerely hope that others in the program are able to do so. I'm afraid, however, that in these days most operators will not be able to foot the bill themselves.

Have you heard anything about the cert conference at D-M for 2010? My contact said he had been told by ACC that it was up in the air, and he did not know how that would affect pilot's clearances to perform.

Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:43 am

Jim,
Does the Heritage Flight have to be "official?" What I mean is, like you said, if both aircraft are already at the show (presumably the warbird is being paid for gas) could you brief with the USAF pilot (if the airshow organizers want a HF) and go fly it even if the USAF cancels an "official" HF program?
I'm sure that was hard to follow. Lost in translation from my head to my fingers...
If you are there and say an F-15 is there can both pilots decide to get together, brief and do their own HF? It would seem to expend little extra fuel (for the warbird).
Regards,
Mark

Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:56 am

The extent and location of any 2010 training conferences is still TBD; as soon as I hear anything official I'll post it.

Also I am pretty certain that without an authorized HF team we couldn't do one ad-hoc.

jb

67Cougar wrote:Jim, I understand, and I appreciate your willingess to do that. I sincerely hope that others in the program are able to do so. I'm afraid, however, that in these days most operators will not be able to foot the bill themselves.

Have you heard anything about the cert conference at D-M for 2010? My contact said he had been told by ACC that it was up in the air, and he did not know how that would affect pilot's clearances to perform.

Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:19 pm

i've seen the heritage and the legacy programs both. in my opinion it is the highlight of the airshow. KEEP EM GOING. i always get a lump in my throat when i think of the scrifice of yesterday's pilots AND today's pilots. HEROs all.

Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:06 pm

The Heritage program started in 1996-97. It was not funded until July 2006. It ran those first ten or so years without funding. Re-read what Jimmy said; he knows whats up.
VL

Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:08 pm

Pure speculation here on my part but I would think that in order for a Heritage Flight to happen in 2010 you would need an Airforce Demo Team (A-10, F-16, F-15, F-22) at an airshow site along with someone ALREADY in the Heritage Flight Progam from the civilian side in order to make it happen. You could not get approval from the Military to just grab a Guard or Reserve F-15 and add any P-51/P-47/P-40/F-86 that happens to be at the show and make a Heritage Flight happen. I guarantee that will not take place.

Also, without a conference to practice it, any "new" Demo pilots coming on to the Demo Teams will not have had the required Heritage Flight practice and therefore they would not be eligible to participate in a Heritage Flight Program. ACC and the U S Air Force won't signoff on that!

Greg

Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:46 pm

Thanks for the answers gents.

Any chance The Horsemen can make it to Thunder Over Michigan next year? I will beg and plead Mike and Kevin to beg and plead you all to make it. Ive never seen it in person just on Air Show Buzz and that over the top barrel roll is one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen!

Keep up the great work!
Regards,
Mark

Last edited by mtpopejoy on Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:48 pm

We'd love to be there and do a HF

mtpopejoy wrote:Thanks for the answers gents.

Any chance The Horsemen can make it to Thunder Over Michigan next year? I will beg and plead Mike and Kevin to beg and plead you all to make it. Ive never seen it in person just on Air Show Buzz and that over the top barrel roll is one of the most beautiful thing I have ever seen!

Keep up the great work!
Regards,
Mark

Heritage Program goes Bye Bye

Heritage Program goes Bye Bye

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