Bouchon details

[Speedy]

So the best I can tell, the Hispano HA-1112 M1L is the version that was built with the Rolls Royce Merlin engine...and with that, it looks like it used a four-bladed Rotol propeller. I base that off of all the photos I've seen of them in Spanish Service, as well as the birds used in the Battle of Britain movie.

My question is about the propeller set-up.

I don't know exactly how many of the HA-1112 airframes around are still in Bouchon configuration (as opposed to being re-engined with the DB, etc), or modified to 'look' more like a late-model BF-109...but it seems that a good percentage of them have three blade props.

Was this just done for cosmetics to make it look more like a -109, or was there actually a three-blade variant of the Bouchon?

What kind of prop is it?

Performance differences?

Any PIREPS?

[bdk]

All I've seen had 4 bladed metal Rotol props originally. POF changed theirs for appearance and availability I'd guess after they received it in crashed condition. I think the three bladers are Hamilton Standard props.

[Speedy]

All I've seen had 4 bladed metal Rotol props originally. POF changed theirs for appearance and availability I'd guess after they received it in crashed condition. I think the three bladers are Hamilton Standard props.

The first 3-blader I recall seeing was the one Bill Harrison restored in 1977, painted up in the desert camo (Erich Hartmann???). It groundlooped, was shipped off to Duxford, restored, groundlooped again, etc.

I know several of the ones used in Memphis Belle were three bladers. The one Mark Hanna was killed in had three blades. The one based at Duxford now with the red rudder has three blades.

The lone remaining CAF example (N109ME) has three blades, as does the one that Harold Kindsvater owns--but it has a bulbous spinner to make it look a little more like a G model 109. I think the one at Cavanaugh has three blades too.

Dunno. Lots of others that I've seen have the four blades. Tillamook, Kalamazoo, the other two CAF birds (before they were destroyed)... Just trying to figure out the what and the why......

[John Dupre]

According to the book Hispano Suiza in Aeronautics the Hispano-Suiza HS-89 engined versions had a DeHavilland prop. Technically these were not Buchons but HA-1109Ks. Early versions with the Rolls Royce were HA-1109M. There was an HA-1112K with the HS 89 and the defininitive HA 1112M1L had the Rolls Royce. The HA 1110 was a two seater prototype with the Rolls Royce and the HA1111 had the HS 89. Confusing, isn't it?

I suppose that any three blade propeller with the proper spline size would fit but who designed the spinner installation?

So the best I can tell, the Hispano HA-1112 M1L is the version that was built with the Rolls Royce Merlin engine...and with that, it looks like it used a four-bladed Rotol propeller. I base that off of all the photos I've seen of them in Spanish Service, as well as the birds used in the Battle of Britain movie.

My question is about the propeller set-up.

I don't know exactly how many of the HA-1112 airframes around are still in Bouchon configuration (as opposed to being re-engined with the DB, etc), or modified to 'look' more like a late-model BF-109...but it seems that a good percentage of them have three blade props.

Was this just done for cosmetics to make it look more like a -109, or was there actually a three-blade variant of the Bouchon?

What kind of prop is it?

Performance differences?

Any PIREPS?

[51fixer]

According to the book Hispano Suiza in Aeronautics the Hispano-Suiza HS-89 engined versions had a DeHavilland prop. Technically these were not Buchons but HA-1109Ks. Early versions with the Rolls Royce were HA-1109M. There was an HA-1112K with the HS 89 and the defininitive HA 1112M1L had the Rolls Royce. The HA 1110 was a two seater prototype with the Rolls Royce and the HA1111 had the HS 89. Confusing, isn't it?

I suppose that any three blade propeller with the proper spline size would fit but who designed the spinner installation?

So the best I can tell, the Hispano HA-1112 M1L is the version that was built with the Rolls Royce Merlin engine...and with that, it looks like it used a four-bladed Rotol propeller. I base that off of all the photos I've seen of them in Spanish Service, as well as the birds used in the Battle of Britain movie.

My question is about the propeller set-up.

I don't know exactly how many of the HA-1112 airframes around are still in Bouchon configuration (as opposed to being re-engined with the DB, etc), or modified to 'look' more like a late-model BF-109...but it seems that a good percentage of them have three blade props.

Was this just done for cosmetics to make it look more like a -109, or was there actually a three-blade variant of the Bouchon?

What kind of prop is it?

Performance differences?

Any PIREPS?

IIRC when the PoF example was rebuilt using a early A-26 spinner made for the HS 3 bladed prop. The front of the cowling was modified to match the spinner dia.
The Merlin had a SAE 50 Spline shaft installed.
The British prop spline would fit the British Props.
I don't remember which HS blades were used but they were D shank blades cut down in the dia.
Rich

Last edited by 51fixer on Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Steve T]

Every period Buchon photo I've seen shows the HA1112 with a four-blader up front. The earlier Hispano-engined variant had a three-blader. I think the modern Warbird HA1112s frequently have three-bladers because that is more typically "Me109"; and of course there is no shortage of three-blade applications for even later-mark Merlins...notably, for instance, the Merlin 620s on the Canadair DC-4M North Star, which sometimes turned three-blade props, sometimes four-blade, and IIRC in the case of at least one aircraft, two of each type on the same machine! Could be simply down to the fact that for a given restoration, the best available prop hub that fit happened to be for a three-blader instead of the standard four-blade unit...one would have to ask each restorer.

S.