B-26 Flak Bait update please
Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:58 pm
Greetings
I was wondering is their a Up date on Flak Bait ? Is their still a chance that she may be moved to USAAF Museum in Dayton ? for that matter are their any other Hanger Queen's that might be slated for a move form the NASM ?
I was wondering is their a Up date on Flak Bait ? Is their still a chance that she may be moved to USAAF Museum in Dayton ? for that matter are their any other Hanger Queen's that might be slated for a move form the NASM ?
Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:02 pm
The last I heard was that is was going to stay with the NASM and that the NMUSAF would keep Shootin' In . NASM slated Flackbait to be the first through the new shop, but I don't know how true that is as I have heard about 5 aircraft that are to be first. I do know that they need to do something now as to the problem with people touching it. That is just not cool.
Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:00 am
do know that they need to do something now as to the problem with people touching it.
Must...resist...rant....
I just hope they get her in one piece and on display at Udvar-Hazy, where the visitors are far more respectful...before all her original paint is gone.
SN
Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:07 am
mustangdriver wrote:The last I heard was that is was going to stay with the NASM and that the NMUSAF would keep Shootin' In . NASM slated Flackbait to be the first through the new shop, but I don't know how true that is as I have heard about 5 aircraft that are to be first. I do know that they need to do something now as to the problem with people touching it. That is just not cool.
Phase II is big enough to handle three 727s simultaneously, and NASM has multiple restoration teams. I've heard Flak Bait, the Helldiver (by agreement with the Engen family based on their donation to Phase II), the Mitchell, the Invader, the Black Widow (which is already on display in a semi-restored state) and the Ho 229 (possibly related to the "Hitler's Stealth Fighter" Nat Geo program.
Ok, that's six ... which ones have you heard?
--Garth
Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:20 am
I heard that originally the Swoose was to be first prior to them giving it to the NMUSAF. Then I heard the B-25, the Helldiver, the B-26, and the S-43.
Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:33 am
I have not seen a planned restoration list for a long time, so anything I can say would be speculative. My guess is that they would be working on perhaps six aircraft at a time. with half being full restorations and half being cleaning/preservation of better preserved aircraft to expediate them onto the museum display. There would also be a balance of civil/military and metal/wood.
My guess is that for the Military ac, the Helldiver would be slated for a full restoration despite its already good condition (again, because of the Engen connection already mentioned) and the B-25 (already in storage at another hanger near UH) would be cleaned up pretty quickly. The B-26 Marauder would wait for a while as the forward fuselage is still being displayed at "the shoebox." But as Garth mentioned, the Invader might get a good cleaning and exterior paint to go on display quickly. The North American FJ-1 might get a cleaning and go out to display early, as might some other Korean/VN era craft.
I think the Focke-Wulf Ta.152 might get the cleaning treatment and go on display before the Ho.229. The Horton will be a difficult restoration, not only physically but with much research needed and some difficult curatorial decisions; it should be a while yet before they get to that. The Me.163 should be going onto UH display pretty quickly, I am guessing in original rather than restored condition, for the present.
This work would be done in company with the civil and wood aircraft. My guess is that the priorities would be the Cierva C-8 (full restoration), the Martin "Kitten" (probably a cleaning and display in original condition?) and some other civil types. It would be nice to see them put the F-5L seaplane fuselage and the Stout Skycar out quickly after cleanings. The Antonov An.2 would be a good plane to put out after a cleaning.
My guess is one of the true "early birds" - the Baldwin Red Devil or the Herring Burgess would get a full restoration in the first few years; these frame wood and fabric aircraft do not take a lot of time and resources.
There would also be a helicopter or two done early on. The Kellett XR-8 has been considered, and the XR-5 might also be due for a quick cleaning and then put on display. In terms of a full restoration for a helicopter, the first one should be the Platt-LePage XR-1, which I understand is in fairly good condition and so would not require a too-lengthy restoration.
This is the first I have heard of the JRS Seaplane being a priority. Maybe for a cleaning but I don't see them putting the resources into a full restoaration for that aircraft too soon, as there are so many other aircraft that badly need restorations and that would take less time.
My guess is that for the Military ac, the Helldiver would be slated for a full restoration despite its already good condition (again, because of the Engen connection already mentioned) and the B-25 (already in storage at another hanger near UH) would be cleaned up pretty quickly. The B-26 Marauder would wait for a while as the forward fuselage is still being displayed at "the shoebox." But as Garth mentioned, the Invader might get a good cleaning and exterior paint to go on display quickly. The North American FJ-1 might get a cleaning and go out to display early, as might some other Korean/VN era craft.
I think the Focke-Wulf Ta.152 might get the cleaning treatment and go on display before the Ho.229. The Horton will be a difficult restoration, not only physically but with much research needed and some difficult curatorial decisions; it should be a while yet before they get to that. The Me.163 should be going onto UH display pretty quickly, I am guessing in original rather than restored condition, for the present.
This work would be done in company with the civil and wood aircraft. My guess is that the priorities would be the Cierva C-8 (full restoration), the Martin "Kitten" (probably a cleaning and display in original condition?) and some other civil types. It would be nice to see them put the F-5L seaplane fuselage and the Stout Skycar out quickly after cleanings. The Antonov An.2 would be a good plane to put out after a cleaning.
My guess is one of the true "early birds" - the Baldwin Red Devil or the Herring Burgess would get a full restoration in the first few years; these frame wood and fabric aircraft do not take a lot of time and resources.
There would also be a helicopter or two done early on. The Kellett XR-8 has been considered, and the XR-5 might also be due for a quick cleaning and then put on display. In terms of a full restoration for a helicopter, the first one should be the Platt-LePage XR-1, which I understand is in fairly good condition and so would not require a too-lengthy restoration.
This is the first I have heard of the JRS Seaplane being a priority. Maybe for a cleaning but I don't see them putting the resources into a full restoaration for that aircraft too soon, as there are so many other aircraft that badly need restorations and that would take less time.
Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:32 pm
I'm curious, are all the aircraft that have been in storage at Garber being moved to U-H? If so, will they be viewable to the public? I would love to be able to see some of the one-of-a-kind WWII Japanese aircraft up close. I've heard that some may be unrestorable (short of a dataplate rebuild) because the original metal has deteriorated so badly.
SN
SN
Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:28 pm
Took this picture, such as it is, last March.
Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:58 pm
Steve Nelson wrote:
I have seen all of the Japanese aircraft up close, and all are restorable. Actually, most of the aircraft are in surprisingly good condition. An exception would be the "Jill" which was in outside storage for so long at Willow Grove, PA; however, it was outside for no longer than the "George" which good a good restoration.
The only real exception is the B5N Tenrai (two-engine prototype or no particular interest) that is very incomplete. The "Betty" bomber of course is also incomplete but would still make a good display.
I've heard that some may be unrestorable (short of a dataplate rebuild) because the original metal has deteriorated so badly.
I have seen all of the Japanese aircraft up close, and all are restorable. Actually, most of the aircraft are in surprisingly good condition. An exception would be the "Jill" which was in outside storage for so long at Willow Grove, PA; however, it was outside for no longer than the "George" which good a good restoration.
The only real exception is the B5N Tenrai (two-engine prototype or no particular interest) that is very incomplete. The "Betty" bomber of course is also incomplete but would still make a good display.
Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:49 am
Steve Nelson wrote:I'm curious, are all the aircraft that have been in storage at Garber being moved to U-H? If so, will they be viewable to the public? I would love to be able to see some of the one-of-a-kind WWII Japanese aircraft up close. I've heard that some may be unrestorable (short of a dataplate rebuild) because the original metal has deteriorated so badly.
SN
Phase II includes a large storage facility that I've heard will allow everything at Garber to be moved to Dulles under an 80/10/10 plan (80% of artifacts on display at Smithsonian facilities, 10% on loan to other museums, 10% in storage and not on display). But I would imagine that's all years away. NASM has other facilities at Dulles besides the main U-H building/hangar: specifically a large storage "shed" big enough to have held the Shuttle, B-17 (the one now down in Georgia), the B-25, Sageburner and a good number of other artifacts (if you do Google Maps in Satellite Mode it's the building up to the North West of the museum on Vortac Rd. with the C-130 and C-121 - now restored and on display in the museum - parked outside), the Quonset-style building formerly used to house the SR-71 and a smaller shed to the immediate South of the museum used as a pre-display area for artifacts brought in from Garber and elsewhere.
The restoration area at Dulles will have a glassed-in catwalk so visitors can view the artifacts being worked on. I don't believe that the storage area will. I have no idea whether there'll be a policy allowing supervised walk-thrus or not. I hope there is, tho.