colors question

[chobi]

I'm trying to determine the exact colors of this B-17G nose art:

It's Joanne from the 483rd BG.
My guess is that the circle background could be in red, with brown girl's hair and black lettering. However I have no idea about the bra... blue maybe or something like that?
Is there any way to find out the colors from black&white photo such this?
Any help?

C'mon!

[Mike Bates]

There were several different types of B/W film used during that time period and depending on which was used the shades of colors can look different. I know some film the color red looked black and others it was lighter. I have a book that talks about the different types of film and what it makes some of the colors looks like. I'll dig it out later and try and get some info posted here for you.
Also it helps sometimes to find other standard marking in the pictures that you know the color of and compare it to other marking to help you decided what it might or might not be.

Mike

[Mgawa]

Maybe this could give more info about the trouble...

[JDK]

Is there any way to find out the colors from black&white photo such this?

There is no certain way of establishing colours from a black and white image.

The two photographic systems touched on above are panchromatic and orthochromatic. (Ortho or Pan for short - look 'em up for more.) Knowing which is which gives you an idea, as in Mgawa's illustration as to which tone a colour might have headed to, but if you don't even know if the colour is, say yellow or red in the first place, you're stuck (the woman's hat, given as red, could have been dark brown or beige for instance...) The intensity, depth or makeup of a colour will shift it from an absolute value as well.

If you have a good 'test card' sample in an image of a known colour (roundels, national markings, standard symbols, flags etc. can be useful for that) you can estimate other greys of the same value may well be the same - but it's far from certain.

Sorry, but anyone telling you a colour is X from a b&w without additional information or the analysis above is selling you snake oil.

HTH

[Mgawa]

Lets make trouble deeper... what if the filters are used? They additionaly change the images color on black and white and we also have to consider parameters of the camera, like focus, exposure and so on, what also give influence in the looking of color. Final way to additionaly distrot the color is the process of developing of film as well the same images from film. Mixture of the chemicals, way of useing, offset from the proposal method, can additionaly change the look of the color.

You can give a try, like to make this girl as a brinette with blond shine, put drop shadow under letter in golden yellow and so on. Most important is if you are going to publish this as art, to note to readers that it is reconstruction so they will keep this in mind and you will keep your autrhority as artist.

Cheers

[Second Air Force]

In Frederick A. Johnson's B-24 Liberator a similar attempt at figuring out colors is illustrated on a Pacific B-24 named Million $ Baby. Photos of her were taken on both ortho and panchromatic film, and the differences are just as Mgawa showed in his earlier post. Fortunately a color photo of her later surfaced in the Jeff Ethell Collection.

If you are able to find color photos of any other ships in the 483rd painted by the same artist it might help to determing Joanne's colors. She's a beauty even if you have to approximate the color scheme.

Scott

[Holedigger]

And to throw more trouble at finding a color. Is it shot in true sunlight or artificial, if artificial, what kind of light? Even color photos vary greatly by the type of lighting on the subject. Fortunately, most AC are shot out in the sun, so that is pretty constant, but those shot in museums or hangars...BEWARE, the lighting can throw the colors all over the place!

[tom d. friedman]

i think flesh tone is 1 gimme

[k5083]

Where I come from, flesh is not all the same tone.

August

[Holedigger]

Just ask Crayola, they pulled "Flesh" from their crayon palate years ago!