Dumb Question about Sea Furies
Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:15 pm
I see that most of the flying Sea Furies in the US are powered by R-3350s instead of the Centaurus and have four blade props rather than five. This got me to wondering about whether it would be possible to use the original five-blade propeller with the -3350.
It seems like the four blade props used with the -3350 have a much thicker chord than the original Sea Fury blades. Would new build props need to be the same dimensions as those with the -3350 or would it be possible to use original Sea Fury blades? Would it even be possible to use a five-blade prop system with a -3350? What kind of engineering would have to be done to make this possible?
It seems like if this were possible, it would give Sea Fury operators the benefit of having the original look of the Sea Fury with the five-blade prop while still being able to use the -3350 that most operators seem to prefer.
It seems like the four blade props used with the -3350 have a much thicker chord than the original Sea Fury blades. Would new build props need to be the same dimensions as those with the -3350 or would it be possible to use original Sea Fury blades? Would it even be possible to use a five-blade prop system with a -3350? What kind of engineering would have to be done to make this possible?
It seems like if this were possible, it would give Sea Fury operators the benefit of having the original look of the Sea Fury with the five-blade prop while still being able to use the -3350 that most operators seem to prefer.
Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:22 pm
no, different splines, you can't mix and match. I for one would not want to be flying behind a cobbled together prop. If you were to throw a blade, you would have seconds to get the power off the engine before the imbalance tore the engine apart or even tore it off the plane.
Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:26 pm
another question...like many british aircraft, does the Bristol turn opposite than the 3350?
Jerry
Jerry
Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:26 pm
The original prop also goes the "wrong way" from the Skyraider (or sometimes, Corsair) prop that the 3350 powered Furies do. I hear that often about the prop not looking right, but when the airplane is flying, you can't tell the difference.......and I'd rather see them in the air with a four bladed prop than sitting on a pole with a five bladed prop. 
Gary
Gary
Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:39 pm
I think it can be done. To my knowledge a propeller chord, width, area, and RPM will determine how much power it absorbs. Theoretically, an experimental prop could be made w/ 5 blades that turns the right way.
I don't think that the Sea Fury blades could be used, because the airfoil wouldn't allow it to turn the right way.
I don't think that the Sea Fury blades could be used, because the airfoil wouldn't allow it to turn the right way.
Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:05 am
I figured that was probably the case. Thanks for the info everyone.
Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:19 pm
I'm not sure of the sizes, but some turbo-props are using 5 blade props. While the blades may not be shaped the same, rotation & splines might match. Just a thought. OTOH, with money, anything can be made.
A2C wrote:I think it can be done. To my knowledge a propeller chord, width, area, and RPM will determine how much power it absorbs. Theoretically, an experimental prop could be made w/ 5 blades that turns the right way.
I don't think that the Sea Fury blades could be used, because the airfoil wouldn't allow it to turn the right way.
Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:54 pm
Are those spline mounted or flange mounted? I thought that the modern turboprops had flanges, but I don't know it for sure.famvburg wrote:I'm not sure of the sizes, but some turbo-props are using 5 blade props. While the blades may not be shaped the same, rotation & splines might match. Just a thought. OTOH, with money, anything can be made.
Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:44 am
The three most popular light turboprops Pratt and Whitney Canada PT-6 and the Garrett (Honeywell) TPE 331, and Allison (Rolls Royce) 25 all have flange mounted propellers. I believe they all turn in the same direction as well. As for the larger engines like those on the C-130 and P-3 that would be closer in power to the Centaurus I am not sure if they are splined or flanged but suspect splined.
Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:30 pm
I just spoke with my friend Ellsworth Getchell, Getch, who owns a Sea Fury and said that finding 5 good Rotol blades is next to impossible these days as are the sleeves for the engine.
Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:53 pm
Hollister wrote:I just spoke with my friend Ellsworth Getchell, Getch, who owns a Sea Fury and said that finding 5 good Rotol blades is next to impossible these days as are the sleeves for the engine.
Yup, ol' Ellsworth knows more about Sea Furies than anyone on the planet. And he's got the largest amount of spares for the Centaurus engine and Rotol prop, stashed away throughout his house. So if Ellsworth says there aren't any (or many) parts left, then that's a fact.
This is exactly why the 3350 is a good conversion for the Fury. It may not be original, but in my opinion, it's at least better to see them fly with a "fake" engine than it is to see them not fly at all. Kind of like the CAF Zero. It's not a Japanese engine, but who cares as long as it flies, right?
Gary
Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:52 pm
Hollister wrote:I just spoke with my friend Ellsworth Getchell, Getch, who owns a Sea Fury and said that finding 5 good Rotol blades is next to impossible these days as are the sleeves for the engine.
Do Hoffman props in Germany make new composite build Rotol's for the Sea Fury? I know they make them for the Spit. Are the 5 blade Rotol's interchangeable between the Spit and Fury?
Why are the sleeves hard to find? The vast majority of Sea Fury's worldwide have the 3350 conversion. There are what - maybe 3 to 5 original Sea Furies still flying with the Centaurus. With very few using it, you would think that owners would sell their old engines since they have no use for it anymore. Are the owners "stashing" or "hoarding" Centaurus's these days?
Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:07 pm
Sea Fury blades are metal. I believe the spline count is different between the Sea Fury and the Spitfire. There are four bladed props that may fit I think (Beverly?), but the engine is the big limitation.warbird1 wrote:Do Hoffman props in Germany make new composite build Rotol's for the Sea Fury? I know they make them for the Spit. Are the 5 blade Rotol's interchangeable between the Spit and Fury?
Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:12 pm
bdk wrote:Sea Fury blades are metal. I believe the spline count is different between the Sea Fury and the Spitfire. There are four bladed props that may fit I think (Beverly?), but the engine is the big limitation.warbird1 wrote:Do Hoffman props in Germany make new composite build Rotol's for the Sea Fury? I know they make them for the Spit. Are the 5 blade Rotol's interchangeable between the Spit and Fury?
How hard would it be to get approval and to put a new build composite 5 blade prop, built to Sea Fury specifications on that Centaurus? Does the fact that you would be using non-metal mean a significant re-engineering problem or is it easily solved?
Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:33 pm
it is nothing that vast sums of cubic dollars could not solve.
But if there is a easier way to do it, go that way,
Myself, I would not want to be experimenting with a propeller being turned by 3,000 ponies, blade failures can ruin your life, or what is left of it, which will not be very long................
But if there is a easier way to do it, go that way,
Myself, I would not want to be experimenting with a propeller being turned by 3,000 ponies, blade failures can ruin your life, or what is left of it, which will not be very long................