Save the Skyraider
Mon May 18, 2009 5:17 pm
My apologies if this has been posted already...first time I've seen it:
http://www.savetheskyraider.com/site/Welcome.html
http://www.savetheskyraider.com/site/Welcome.html
Mon May 18, 2009 5:48 pm
Where is the airplane now? Under lock and key/armed guard? All because of a paperwork SNAFU? This is getting out of hand. 
Tue May 19, 2009 5:25 am
Mod post: I've split the general political remarks from this thread (they have been moved to Gen Discussion) to enable useful data and action to be added, where known. Further general political remarks will either be deleted, as they contravene the forum rules, or result in the thread being locked, which is no help to anyone.
Thank you for keeping the matter on topic.
Thank you for keeping the matter on topic.
Tue May 19, 2009 5:31 am
It would be useful to have some accurate, quantified data on the case - what's been presented so far is vague and not enough to expect others to act for the owner, IMHO. I'm surprised that a website has been set up without, still, any specific data of the problem, and two blog posts in, it's still vague.
A generic history of the Skyraider on the website is of little use or relevance compared to the as-yet unprovided details of the case.
A generic history of the Skyraider on the website is of little use or relevance compared to the as-yet unprovided details of the case.
Tue May 19, 2009 6:18 am
James, the intention of my original post was certainly not to create more headaches for you or other mods.
You have my blessing to yank this post completely if it continues to be a source of frustration.
Dan
You have my blessing to yank this post completely if it continues to be a source of frustration.
Dan
Tue May 19, 2009 6:27 am
Thanks Dan.
Your intention to me seemed what we are after on the warbird information exchange; I'm sure we all agree that if there was an injustice done to this owner, we'd like to add our weight to straighten it out.
However, despite a previous post and discussion here (I dunno where it is - I've not bothered to look, frankly) the owner hasn't made chapter and verse available on the matter.
I'm not yet drawing a conclusion from that - but you can.
Meanwhile generic anti-government posts aren't acceptable under WIX rules.
Regards,
Your intention to me seemed what we are after on the warbird information exchange; I'm sure we all agree that if there was an injustice done to this owner, we'd like to add our weight to straighten it out.
However, despite a previous post and discussion here (I dunno where it is - I've not bothered to look, frankly) the owner hasn't made chapter and verse available on the matter.
I'm not yet drawing a conclusion from that - but you can.
Meanwhile generic anti-government posts aren't acceptable under WIX rules.
Regards,
Tue May 19, 2009 8:04 am
Wait a second, I understand taking a post down that is offensive or political for the sake of being political, bt that is not what this is. This is the TSA a government body, taking a warbird for no good reason. THis is exactly what needs to be talked about here. Who are they to just walk into someone's hangar and say, you don't own this anyomre. I have dealt with those morons before that have triple digit incomes, and single digit I.Q.'s We can't just not talk about it.
Tue May 19, 2009 8:13 am
To start with, we need to have the facts right.
In the original discussion, it was not clear that the TSA had done anything of the sort. There did appear to be a paperwork violation - but there has been no further reliable data provided about that, or the reasons for the actions of the TSA or the owner.
I'd be very wary about building a 'case' to get act on from what has been made public so far. Like the previous example of an alleged TSA over-reaction with the B-17 tour, when the facts were established, it turned out to be quite a different story - and the TSA were not only NOT at fault they weren't even involved.
In short, you need to have enough reliable info to aim before firing.
mustangdriver wrote:This is the TSA a government body, taking a warbird for no good reason. THis is exactly what needs to be talked about here. Who are they to just walk into someone's hangar and say, you don't own this anyomre..
In the original discussion, it was not clear that the TSA had done anything of the sort. There did appear to be a paperwork violation - but there has been no further reliable data provided about that, or the reasons for the actions of the TSA or the owner.
I'd be very wary about building a 'case' to get act on from what has been made public so far. Like the previous example of an alleged TSA over-reaction with the B-17 tour, when the facts were established, it turned out to be quite a different story - and the TSA were not only NOT at fault they weren't even involved.
In short, you need to have enough reliable info to aim before firing.
Tue May 19, 2009 8:16 am
I don't want to ruffle any feathers and I don't know the owner involved, but I want to know the story before I decide what to think about this.
On the surface, it does seem to be big brother gone wild. I have only read what was in the earlier thread and there was a lack of information on the link. Not saying it is bad for the owner, it could be lawyers telling the folks involved to keep silent.
Couldn't find much on a google search and that isn't saying much either.
There is just a big lack of information in which to draw any conclusion at this time.
On the surface, it does seem to be big brother gone wild. I have only read what was in the earlier thread and there was a lack of information on the link. Not saying it is bad for the owner, it could be lawyers telling the folks involved to keep silent.
Couldn't find much on a google search and that isn't saying much either.
There is just a big lack of information in which to draw any conclusion at this time.
????
Tue May 19, 2009 8:34 am
Where's Mark clark when you need him??
I bet he knows!!
I bet he knows!!
Tue May 19, 2009 8:51 am
JDK, just so you know, I meant no disrespect.
Tue May 19, 2009 11:24 am
Let's not let this anti-TSA rant be like the last one about the B-17....you know, the one which turned out to be not as it was originally reported.
This may be as asinine as it seems, I don't know...but be wary of ready/fire/aim comments, as they are as ignorant as the action that's being commented on potentially is.
This may be as asinine as it seems, I don't know...but be wary of ready/fire/aim comments, as they are as ignorant as the action that's being commented on potentially is.
Tue May 19, 2009 11:32 am
It appears that ICE agents were the ones who swooped in to make the grab. The good news in this that I see is that the EAA has apparently sided with the owner and is trying to help. This from their website
EAA Warbirds of America Offers Assistance
The Department of Homeland Security recently notified a pilot, an EAA Warbirds of America (WOA) member and owner of a Douglas AD-4N Skyraider that it intended to confiscate his recently imported aircraft. The Department alleges that necessary forms were improperly filed. Last week federal agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement seized and threatened to destroy this rare piece of our nation’s aviation heritage. The airplane remains in a secured hangar at the member’s home airport.
In 2008, after a trans-Atlantic flight, this aircraft cleared customs and proceeded to its new home base in Bessemer, Alabama. Last September, the FAA inspected the aircraft and issued the Skyraider its new Experimental and Exhibition operating certificate and U.S. registration number.
The member has retained legal counsel, solicited the assistance of EAA member and WOA board member Congressman Sam Graves, and has been in contact with WOA President Rick Siegfried.
EAA and Siegfried are staying apprised of the situation. As this AD-4D Skyraider owner requests or is in need of additional assistance, EAA stands ready. Updates will follow.
EAA Warbirds of America Offers Assistance
The Department of Homeland Security recently notified a pilot, an EAA Warbirds of America (WOA) member and owner of a Douglas AD-4N Skyraider that it intended to confiscate his recently imported aircraft. The Department alleges that necessary forms were improperly filed. Last week federal agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement seized and threatened to destroy this rare piece of our nation’s aviation heritage. The airplane remains in a secured hangar at the member’s home airport.
In 2008, after a trans-Atlantic flight, this aircraft cleared customs and proceeded to its new home base in Bessemer, Alabama. Last September, the FAA inspected the aircraft and issued the Skyraider its new Experimental and Exhibition operating certificate and U.S. registration number.
The member has retained legal counsel, solicited the assistance of EAA member and WOA board member Congressman Sam Graves, and has been in contact with WOA President Rick Siegfried.
EAA and Siegfried are staying apprised of the situation. As this AD-4D Skyraider owner requests or is in need of additional assistance, EAA stands ready. Updates will follow.
Disinformation
Tue May 19, 2009 12:45 pm
JDK and everybody else,
I agree that political overtones should be avoided. I have also noticed that there seems to be a readiness here to put out political propaganda before real facts, which I am still waiting for on the B-17 issue. But I also want to say that as a government employee for over 10 years, the G likes to put out its own disinformation. ICE has been one of those "go everywhere" federal agencies, and is a group with very little of their actual composition known. Therefore, I would tend to view any information released by their official organ as suspect. I'm not trying to put out political propaganda here, just to help anyone else use a healthy sense of objective discretion to look at this situation here. If a governmental organization went heading out to look for terrorists and only found a vintage aircraft, they might put out information to cover their operations and sources of their decisions, if only to confuse the real terrorists about how they operate.
I agree that political overtones should be avoided. I have also noticed that there seems to be a readiness here to put out political propaganda before real facts, which I am still waiting for on the B-17 issue. But I also want to say that as a government employee for over 10 years, the G likes to put out its own disinformation. ICE has been one of those "go everywhere" federal agencies, and is a group with very little of their actual composition known. Therefore, I would tend to view any information released by their official organ as suspect. I'm not trying to put out political propaganda here, just to help anyone else use a healthy sense of objective discretion to look at this situation here. If a governmental organization went heading out to look for terrorists and only found a vintage aircraft, they might put out information to cover their operations and sources of their decisions, if only to confuse the real terrorists about how they operate.
Tue May 19, 2009 1:08 pm
What the owner needs is a VERY good attorney. If the owner or owners agent did not get the proper paperwork then he is in violation of the law. It is as simple as that. Hopefully good legal advice and perseverance thru the proper channels can get this resolved. I don't see it as a case of government gone wild at all, rules are rules. You would think someone going to the expense and work of importing a warbird would make sure all his t's were crossed and his i's were dotted. I hope he can get it worked out.