b-24 lib's belly ball turret, now you see it, now you don't

[tom d. friedman]

why was the lib's retractable ball turret deleted?? was it deleted on all b-24's?? or just on certain variants / models?? i've seen many pics with it & without, perhaps at various stages of the war. why wasn't the b-17's ball turret deleted??? it was in use for the entire duration of the war??

[gemmer]

The ball turret was installed in late production B-24Ds and continued through all subsequent models. In Europe, in order to reduce weight, the 8th Air Force removed them in them starting in the summer of 1944. The 15th AirForce kept them. The 5th Air Force in the Pacific also removed them for the same reason, but hand held guns were substituted in place of the turret. Most of the 5th AF aircraft had the turret removed at modification depots prior to arrival at their assigned units. Most of the groups in the 11th and 13th Air Forces kept them. In fact, they were retro-fitted to early D models that did not have them, at the same time that they were modified with nose turrets.

Since the B-17 was not considered overweight to the extent that the B-24 was, the turret was not an issue. However, at least one group in the 8th
removed them and the chin turret from their G models late in the war.

Duane

[gemmer]

I neglected to note that the B-24E, which was essentially a Ford built "D", did not have the ball turret.

Duane

[the330thbg]

Originally introduced in the B-24C model, which did not see combat, the tunnel gun had a limited field of fire and was difficult to operate in combat. As result 287 B-24Ds were equipped with Bendix power turrets that could be retracted into the aircraft for takeoff and landings.
The Bendix turret induced nausea and disorientation in the ball turret gunners, and soon the turret was deleted and replaced with the tunnel gun again. It was not until the successful Sperry turret was installed (like the one used on the B-17E/F, only it could be retracted into the fuselage) that the B-24 had a workable belly gun defense.
Eventually a nose turret like the tail turret was also added, bringing the total number of .50 caliber machine guns to over thirteen. The B-24 never upgraded its engines, resulting in diminished performance since the extra turrets added significant weight.