How many are left ?
Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:29 pm
Greetings
I was wondering just how many WW2 Aircraft might still be around to be recovered ? Are their any more Heavy Bombers ? Has anybody ever found one of the Buried Aircraft Graveyards ? I was just interested to know .
I was wondering just how many WW2 Aircraft might still be around to be recovered ? Are their any more Heavy Bombers ? Has anybody ever found one of the Buried Aircraft Graveyards ? I was just interested to know .
Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:01 pm
Hi Glen,
You've asked a pretty open-ended question that has a very long and complicated answer. Are you talking about easy-to-get to, fairly intact aircraft on land? If so, most of those have been recovered or scrapped.
As to the buried boneyards, there are known areas where there were pieces and parts pushed into ravines and buried, and some of those have been explored. But nothing really significant to date has appeared. Some treasures, but nothing just overwhelming.
What is left? There are scores of aircraft underwater, in various states of decay. The colder the water, and the lower its oxygen content, the better preserved the aircraft is likely to be. The Great Lakes, primarily Lake Michigan, has over 100 WWII aircraft, with a fair number of combat veterans, in its depths. The Navy controls those recoveries. There are quite a few known wrecks in the waters between Italy and the former Yugoslavia, under the routes bombers would take going to and from Italian bases. There are aircraft still being recovered from Norwegian and other Scandanavian fjords. There are still rumored to be fairly significant numbers of fairly intact fighter wrecks, mostly Russian types, 109s, P-40s and P-39/P-63s in the Russian hinterlands. In Papua New Guinea and other South Pacific nations, relatively significant numbers of aircraft wrecks remain. Those easiest to get to have been removed or picked over. In more remote areas, there are several significant chunks of B-24s, at least one known fairly intact B-17, numerous fighters and several Japanese aircraft. There are several known Betty wrecks that are fairly intact. Most of these aircraft are overshadowed by the regional politics that inhibit easy recovery.
How's that? The short answer is, there are still significant numbers left. Just not as many as there used to be, not as easy to get to, and in worse condition than they used to be found in.
kevin
You've asked a pretty open-ended question that has a very long and complicated answer. Are you talking about easy-to-get to, fairly intact aircraft on land? If so, most of those have been recovered or scrapped.
As to the buried boneyards, there are known areas where there were pieces and parts pushed into ravines and buried, and some of those have been explored. But nothing really significant to date has appeared. Some treasures, but nothing just overwhelming.
What is left? There are scores of aircraft underwater, in various states of decay. The colder the water, and the lower its oxygen content, the better preserved the aircraft is likely to be. The Great Lakes, primarily Lake Michigan, has over 100 WWII aircraft, with a fair number of combat veterans, in its depths. The Navy controls those recoveries. There are quite a few known wrecks in the waters between Italy and the former Yugoslavia, under the routes bombers would take going to and from Italian bases. There are aircraft still being recovered from Norwegian and other Scandanavian fjords. There are still rumored to be fairly significant numbers of fairly intact fighter wrecks, mostly Russian types, 109s, P-40s and P-39/P-63s in the Russian hinterlands. In Papua New Guinea and other South Pacific nations, relatively significant numbers of aircraft wrecks remain. Those easiest to get to have been removed or picked over. In more remote areas, there are several significant chunks of B-24s, at least one known fairly intact B-17, numerous fighters and several Japanese aircraft. There are several known Betty wrecks that are fairly intact. Most of these aircraft are overshadowed by the regional politics that inhibit easy recovery.
How's that? The short answer is, there are still significant numbers left. Just not as many as there used to be, not as easy to get to, and in worse condition than they used to be found in.
kevin
Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:23 pm
wow, that is a really loaded question. I could tell you a whole bunch of rumours I've heard, and I could tell you a few things I know for sure.
There's a Lancaster in Nunavut that was in almost perfect condition right after the crash landing into a shallow lake, but it was never recovered, then was horribly crushed by ice and is very much not worth recoverying, especially considering its remoteness.
Anyways, Tulsaboy says just about everything else I would say.
Cheers,
David
There's a Lancaster in Nunavut that was in almost perfect condition right after the crash landing into a shallow lake, but it was never recovered, then was horribly crushed by ice and is very much not worth recoverying, especially considering its remoteness.
Anyways, Tulsaboy says just about everything else I would say.
Cheers,
David
Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:24 am
Thanks Guys .................Didnt mean for it to be loaded 
I guess that I was trying to figure out how many Multi Engine American Bombers might still be to Had . Some where I seem to remember a B-17 that was in a Snowy area on the surface or close to it . .............Wow I do Appericate all the info that was shared .
Always ......Thank you for all that respond.
Glen the Doped up on Meds!.............Being sick with a Fever really stinks !
I guess that I was trying to figure out how many Multi Engine American Bombers might still be to Had . Some where I seem to remember a B-17 that was in a Snowy area on the surface or close to it . .............Wow I do Appericate all the info that was shared .
Always ......Thank you for all that respond.
Glen the Doped up on Meds!.............Being sick with a Fever really stinks !
Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:30 am
Hey Glen,
I think the B-17 you're thinking about is the one Gary Larkins was/is after, maybe? I don't know much about it, but remember it was briefly talked about on here before.
There are B-25's around, especially in South America it seems. Smaller Asian countries often have gems hidden away. Getting them out is becoming harder as the owners/governments are getting an understanding of how much us "westerners" want them. Plus, I think they've also began to appreciate the aviation heritage that they have, and want to at least keep examples in their own countries.
As for finding bombers simply stored, that's getting to be pretty rare, but it's worth looking up old accident reports and crash reports to see what might be still be up a mountain or in a lake.
Cheers,
David
I think the B-17 you're thinking about is the one Gary Larkins was/is after, maybe? I don't know much about it, but remember it was briefly talked about on here before.
There are B-25's around, especially in South America it seems. Smaller Asian countries often have gems hidden away. Getting them out is becoming harder as the owners/governments are getting an understanding of how much us "westerners" want them. Plus, I think they've also began to appreciate the aviation heritage that they have, and want to at least keep examples in their own countries.
As for finding bombers simply stored, that's getting to be pretty rare, but it's worth looking up old accident reports and crash reports to see what might be still be up a mountain or in a lake.
Cheers,
David
there are 2 b-17;a in the reservoir at
Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:42 am
Glen wrote:Thanks Guys .................Didnt mean for it to be loaded
Always ......Thank you for all that respond.
Glen the Doped up on Meds!.............Being sick with a Fever really stinks !
american falls Idaho. Ther were exposed when they drained the resovoir partially to build it higher in the early 60's they took off from pocatello idaho and ditched in the resovoir on 2 separate occasions and strangely ended up very close to each other...perhaps it was a problem on takeoff so they are in line with the runway somewhere out there....I really wish someone would rescue whats left there....the navy sent is a UDT team to blow the tails off as they were deemed a navigation hazzard but otherwise ther ae intact in fresh water.
Lend Lease
Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:44 am
Even if you found an abandoned warbird are they are still owned by the US Govt ?
Under Lend Lease aircraft that weren't returned were supposed to be destroyed or paid for.
What's the story on this ?
Under Lend Lease aircraft that weren't returned were supposed to be destroyed or paid for.
What's the story on this ?
Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:54 am
Hey aseanaero,
I imagine it all depends on the agreements that were set up with the US government post WWII. Shortly after WWII, the US and Canada signed an agreement that said any war materials, aircraft (and wreckage), or materials left in Canada to do with the building of the Alaska highway become the property of the Canadian Government, or at least no longer fall under US jurisdiction.
I figure that there are similar agreements around the world to do with this. Can anyone else add on to this?
Cheers,
David
I imagine it all depends on the agreements that were set up with the US government post WWII. Shortly after WWII, the US and Canada signed an agreement that said any war materials, aircraft (and wreckage), or materials left in Canada to do with the building of the Alaska highway become the property of the Canadian Government, or at least no longer fall under US jurisdiction.
I figure that there are similar agreements around the world to do with this. Can anyone else add on to this?
Cheers,
David