Vulcan - the end is near - got a spare $1m GBP buddy?

[flyingheritage]

News filtering out from England has ambigous information on the flying Vulcan bomber... some says it will survive 2009 other saying it cant...it requires massive capital injection and no one is doing that.

It seems the 2008 airshow season it likely to be the last for a long time.....

They are requiring massive amounts of cash and it is obviously not going to happen this year as the world is in recessionary times.

For example they are requiring around $1m GBP to keep flying just for 2009 - part of it i suspect...

That kind of money could keep some warbird airborne for a decade....

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/

Sad news and a sadder day for the Vulcan.

Just when do you say enough is enough ?.....at $1m GBP a year that is serious money..

[bdk]

It seems the 2008 airshow season it likely to be the last for a long time.....

I think that was said before the 2008 season as well. They raised the needed capital before, let's encourage them to do it again. What a fantastic accomplishment up to this point, and what a fantastic airplane as well!

[Fouga23]

The sooner it ends, the better. How much has been spend on this project? 7, 8 million pounds? They need another 1mil a year to keep it going and meanwhile the executives give themselves nice big paychecks. Weren't they also still in debt with Marchal aerospace?
It's an enormous waste of money that would be better spend on the restoration of some rare aircraft or new museum buildings to put aircraft under cover.

[51fixer]

Most of us really don't understand what it takes to operate and maintain a very complex aircraft.
The 2nd degree of complexity is that this is being done in the UK so that it is under the control of their CAA. They don't make it simple or easy for any Warbird Aircraft to fly.
The Vulcans Airworthiness Approval Notes can be found here-
http://www.caa.co.uk/aandocs/27038/27038000000.pdf
Part of what they soon have to do is tear apart a sistership that is higher time to inspect fatigue of the inner parts of the structure that are not accessible.
Rich

[flyingheritage]

Read the first post of this thread - seems the TVOC is limiting people to see the Vulcan YET they crying out for more money ..

Guess some people are bit angry as 2nd poster shows..


http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=7527

[Reduit im Luft CH]

Hi, everyone,

yes the 1 million GBP figure is correct. That's the fundraising target.

the project already has the backup of Rolls-Royce for engine overhaul, access to spare engines, so its still better value keeping it airworthy, than giving up.

Besides when not on the airshow circuit, ideal testbed for civil research n development.

Future airliners won't look like 747's. If Concorde had been built like the Vulcan(scaled up) it would still be flying.

A flying wing is far more drag-efficient than conventional designs.

There is a campaign going, for the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight to take over the running of the aircraft.

[Fouga23]

the project already has the backup of Rolls-Royce for engine overhaul, access to spare engines, so its still better value keeping it airworthy, than giving up.

Yeah, keep pumping millions of pounds into an airframe that was grounded half of last years airshow season. From the start the managment have been saying they would get a major corporate sponsor when it flew. It never happened and now they are begging for money every month.

Besides when not on the airshow circuit, ideal testbed for civil research n development.

What research?

Future airliners won't look like 747's. If Concorde had been built like the Vulcan(scaled up) it would still be flying.
A flying wing is far more drag-efficient than conventional designs.

Concorde would not be flying anymore for the simple reason that it was a money loss. the only thing that kept them in the air for so long was the "prestige" for the airline.

There is a campaign going, for the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight to take over the running of the aircraft.

There is a list for people to sign who want to see this happen. It won't though. British armed forces need the money for operational purposes. they don't have millions to throw around on a bomber. The BBMF doesn't have the budget to keep a vulcan. Besides, where was the Vulcan during the battle for Britain?
Same thing for selling it to someone in the states. No way it's gonna fly in the US. Look at the CAF with FIFI. It's hard enough keeping a B-29 in the air, let alone a multi-million dollar jet bomber!

[flyingheritage]

If this Vulcan flying paln does fall over and become a permant static item and grounded in effect.. i suspect many people will become very wary of donating money to any warbird cause.
Not forgetting angry that they have donated and the plan failed.

To throw say $15m at a plane is brave and committed but if they have so much debt and cant get the sponsors in a worldwide recession which may last 1-3years they are well and truly stuffed arent they????

Their only option left is to only do limited ground runs.

Maybe if after that they can gain sponsors in a few years time maybe then she can refly for the public?

Why is the Vulcan trust not pushing for a less expensive approach in a recession time frame?

Engines run open day would bring in people anyway and they could easily save $$$ and then keep her

1) flying status ok JUST not flown and

2) a major tourism event.

I maybe out of my depth on how committed the English maybe towards her but everything is spelling a non flying year ahead i think.

Joining her with the BBMF is maybe good intentions but wrong.

The plane is not a BBMF plane and neither is the Lancaster...

A true BBMF is only Hurricanes and Spitfires.

[Firebird]

the project already has the backup of Rolls-Royce for engine overhaul,

Err.....no they don't.
RR inspected and OK'd the 8 engines TVOC had in store and I think but can't quite remember, one of them wasn't cleared for flight. They have since lost another IIRC, and RR have stated in no uncertain terms that they will NOT overhaul the engines. So, when they run out of engines she will be grounded forever anyway.
That's one of the reasons why the Vulcan's few displays have been so tame as they are having to limit the engine cycle's to preserve engine life for the proposed future display years.....which of course may now have been a pointless exercise.

There is a campaign going, for the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight to take over the running of the aircraft.

A more ludicrous idea I can't imagine. Clearly proposed by people who don't know anything about operating military aircraft.

[jet1]

..it is a very cool plane to see in the air....BUT....I think that it is folly to pump money into it as it is a bottomless pit. I can't begin to imagine the amount of work and effort it takes to keep that thing in the air. The same goes for fifi.....I have been in the air with fifi a couple of times.....BUT....how many aircraft could they keep airworthy for the money spent just to try to get it back in the air. Its a noble effort...BUT... in this economy and with air shows shutting down right and left im not sure its a viable goal...again a noble effort but...........

[Reduit im Luft CH]

the project already has the backup of Rolls-Royce for engine overhaul,

Err.....no they don't.
RR inspected and OK'd the 8 engines TVOC had in store and I think but can't quite remember, one of them wasn't cleared for flight. They have since lost another IIRC, and RR have stated in no uncertain terms that they will NOT overhaul the engines. So, when they run out of engines she will be grounded forever anyway.
That's one of the reasons why the Vulcan's few displays have been so tame as they are having to limit the engine cycle's to preserve engine life for the proposed future display years.....which of course may now have been a pointless exercise.

There is a campaign going, for the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight to take over the running of the aircraft.

A more ludicrous idea I can't imagine. Clearly proposed by people who don't know anything about operating military aircraft.

Substitute the word Trust, as in Vulcan to the Sky......., with the word 'Bank' and you really are in the realm of the ludicrous. Then again, maybe........ London, a place where they obviously know nothing about finance.

[richkolasa]

..it is a very cool plane to see in the air....BUT....I think that it is folly to pump money into it as it is a bottomless pit. I can't begin to imagine the amount of work and effort it takes to keep that thing in the air. The same goes for fifi.....I have been in the air with fifi a couple of times.....BUT....how many aircraft could they keep airworthy for the money spent just to try to get it back in the air. Its a noble effort...BUT... in this economy and with air shows shutting down right and left im not sure its a viable goal...again a noble effort but...........

Can we STOP prefacing every post with "in this economy"?!!! The Government can pull $800 billion out of our future earnings and give $2 billion to ACORN and $8 Billion to a rail line from Vegas to Disneyland, you think maybe some historical organization can get a dang $10 million for flying history? Newark, NJ administrators just got $45 million for "back raises" a few months ago. How about we find ways to direct the money for "the arts" to the art of restorations?

Rich

Rich

[Reduit im Luft CH]

Now that's more like it, the art of the possible, here here.

We can blow billions on 'banks' and the bottomless Olympics project, and apart from a few grumbles and shrugs of the shoulders, it gets accepted.

Keeping the Vulcan flying is expensive, but possible and well within the means of a developed nation.

There is but one flying Vulcan, there will, asteroids apart, be countless future Olympics.

Surprised that genuine aviation buffs can be so defeatist. Every savable one-off , should be preserved.

In Canada, the only 'complete' Handley Page Hampden has recently collapsed, due to weight of snow, as an outdoors exhibit !!

[Tony]

Now that's more like it, the art of the possible, here here.

We can blow billions on 'banks' and the bottomless Olympics project, and apart from a few grumbles and shrugs of the shoulders, it gets accepted.

Keeping the Vulcan flying is expensive, but possible and well within the means of a developed nation.

There is but one flying Vulcan, there will, asteroids apart, be countless future Olympics.

Surprised that genuine aviation buffs can be so defeatist. Every savable one-off , should be preserved.

In Canada, the only 'complete' Handley Page Hampden has recently collapsed, due to weight of snow, as an outdoors exhibit !!

Can you explain why it is so important to keep a Vulcan flying?

The Victor arguably contributed far more, so why not return one of those to airworthy status?

It must just be me confused here, but why is it so important to keep this aircraft flying in the face of common sense?

The economic bite is well and truly on Britain. I'm volunteering for an operational tour, because I cannot see my business running at the level I need it to be for another 18 months , so HMG can pay for my experience and expertise for a while.

That also affects Airshow public, unless they are dedicated hardcore. With the price of airshow admission reaching silly money, plus the cost of parking and travel , more people are prepared to sit at home and get something alternative and cheaper aviation connected.

The Vulcan model as it stands is fatally flawed. If they said "We need 350K to put her on jacks for the next two years and keep her breathing", a lot more of us could see the sense of that and bung in a couple of quid.

Yes every savable airframe one-off should be preserved, but not at the expense of reality and common sense. The Vulcan is not a one-off airframe either.

On a more personal note, the money thrown at this tin triangle so far, could have returned some rare and relevant types to the skies.

Put the Vulcan on blocks, keep her systems live , make sure there are plenty of opportunites for the supporters to visit , and she'll fly again, just not right now.

As for putting her in the care of BBMF , I presume this is a barely disguised punt at getting the MoD to pay for it?

I'd rather the MoD pay for the equipment we need in Afghanistan right now. If the MoD are to throw money at obsolescent aircraft, then they can put it into the Tri-Slums and VC-10's and upgrade the Hercs

The sort of money required to keep the Vulcan operating could still pay for a lot of kit that is essential in theatre. I'd rather it went there , than pumping up vanities and egos.

[richkolasa]

Now that's more like it, the art of the possible, here here.

We can blow billions on 'banks' and the bottomless Olympics project, and apart from a few grumbles and shrugs of the shoulders, it gets accepted.

Keeping the Vulcan flying is expensive, but possible and well within the means of a developed nation.

There is but one flying Vulcan, there will, asteroids apart, be countless future Olympics.

Surprised that genuine aviation buffs can be so defeatist. Every savable one-off , should be preserved.

In Canada, the only 'complete' Handley Page Hampden has recently collapsed, due to weight of snow, as an outdoors exhibit !!

Can you explain why it is so important to keep a Vulcan flying?

.

No, why should anyone explain anything to you? Who made you arbiter of everything expensive on earth? Why are single baseball players paid more money in one year than it would cost to operate a wonderful piece of aviation history for many years? Oh, wait...in this economy...blah blah blah.

Go Vulcan fund!