Jet/T-6 formation for the $600 hamburger

[T33driver]

Flying to/from lunch today, I flew the T-33 and joined up on my buddies in their former RCAF Harvard Mk IV and former SAAF T-6G (all three aircraft in paint schemes and markings accurate to their individual histories). The props pushed it up to 140 knots, made only shallow turns, and I dropped some flaps and it worked just fine. Great fun!!

Last edited by T33driver on Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[stumac]

It dosn't get much better then that! I know what it is like with those dissimilar formations. My buddy and I were flying not to long ago, I was in a T-6 and he was in a Bearcat. I had to sit there and watch him do loops and rolls around me. A few weeks ago I was flying the T-6 in formation with a friend and he was in a Stearman. That day I was doing loops and rolls around him. Most of the flying I get to do these days are for paid formation flights so there really isn't too much screwing around but it is a real treat when a couple of us just go fly somwhere just for the heck of it. Those are real good hamburgers.

[6trn4brn]

Outstanding pix Paul!

Ya know...with all of the bickering, fighting, mud-slinging etc., WIX sometimes reminds me of a backroom at a bar...full of cigar smoke, angry grumps, just waiting to pull their guns and start shooting the crap out of each other.

What a fantastic breath of fresh air to see pix like yours Paul and know that there are still people around who enjoy flying just for the heck of it!

...allrightythen...back to the bitching, pi$$ing and moaning about whatever the latest bitchfest is about!

[Holedigger]

Fly on down and buzz my house, I'll cook you up some burgers for "FREE" and throw in some "suds". Don't even want to think of the fuel cost on that one! Hmmm, let me check the map, there must be SOME shortcut from Canada to Florida, with all the Canadian tags I see around here!

Dissimilar formations must be tricky, at MacDill last year, they had a Phantom, Sabre and P-51. Nothing fancy, just hold formation and do a nice SAFE flyby or two. Too Cool!

[T33driver]

For a T-33 long cross country, rule of thumb is figure on burning one gallon per mile. Jet fuel costs vary but is $3 USD and change right now. Last summer it was twice that.

[jet1]

...

[Holedigger]

Just what is the range of the T-33, I've read 845 miles up to 1336 miles, the internet, gotta love it! Guess it depends on just which configuration, engine, load, and if you can catch the jet stream in the right direction! I'd always heard the T-33 had a fairly short range.

We'll just save the grease from the burgers and add it to the tank to top it off!

[T33driver]

Just what is the range of the T-33, I've read 845 miles up to 1336 miles, the internet, gotta love it! Guess it depends on just which configuration, engine, load, and if you can catch the jet stream in the right direction! I'd always heard the T-33 had a fairly short range.

We'll just save the grease from the burgers and add it to the tank to top it off!

A few years ago the FAA enacted the Reduced Vertical Separation Minimums or RVSM that reduced altitude separation for high altitude traffic. This required high altitude operators to spend large amounts of money in avionics upgrades required by the new regulation. Since I only occasionally fly long-distance it's not worth it to me. Like most jets, but especially the old turbojets, they take a huge penalty on range if not flown at the highest altitude possible/practical. With RVSM, I'm limited to a max of 28,000' since RVSM airspace is 29,000-41,000' and it's real tough, if not impossible to get a T-33 to 42,000' though I've heard stories of pilots doing it. Anywho, assuming zero headwind/tailwind, I could fly it 700 nautical miles (maybe a little more) or so nonstop at 28,000'. Before RVSM, I'd cruise at 35,000-37,000' and go 1000 to 1100 nautical miles nonstop.

[Django]

Looks like fun!!

[John Cotter]

Just what is the range of the T-33, I've read 845 miles up to 1336 miles, the internet, gotta love it! Guess it depends on just which configuration, engine, load, and if you can catch the jet stream in the right direction! I'd always heard the T-33 had a fairly short range.

We'll just save the grease from the burgers and add it to the tank to top it off!

A few years ago the FAA enacted the Reduced Vertical Separation Minimums or RVSM that reduced altitude separation for high altitude traffic. This required high altitude operators to spend large amounts of money in avionics upgrades required by the new regulation. Since I only occasionally fly long-distance it's not worth it to me. Like most jets, but especially the old turbojets, they take a huge penalty on range if not flown at the highest altitude possible/practical. With RVSM, I'm limited to a max of 28,000' since RVSM airspace is 29,000-41,000' and it's real tough, if not impossible to get a T-33 to 42,000' though I've heard stories of pilots doing it. Anywho, assuming zero headwind/tailwind, I could fly it 700 nautical miles (maybe a little more) or so nonstop at 28,000'. Before RVSM, I'd cruise at 35,000-37,000' and go 1000 to 1100 nautical miles nonstop.

Paul,
Isn't it true, that with ATC agreement, you can operate in RVSM airspace? Would that allow you to step climb and finish at FL420 for the remainder of the flight?

[T33driver]

Just what is the range of the T-33, I've read 845 miles up to 1336 miles, the internet, gotta love it! Guess it depends on just which configuration, engine, load, and if you can catch the jet stream in the right direction! I'd always heard the T-33 had a fairly short range.

We'll just save the grease from the burgers and add it to the tank to top it off!

A few years ago the FAA enacted the Reduced Vertical Separation Minimums or RVSM that reduced altitude separation for high altitude traffic. This required high altitude operators to spend large amounts of money in avionics upgrades required by the new regulation. Since I only occasionally fly long-distance it's not worth it to me. Like most jets, but especially the old turbojets, they take a huge penalty on range if not flown at the highest altitude possible/practical. With RVSM, I'm limited to a max of 28,000' since RVSM airspace is 29,000-41,000' and it's real tough, if not impossible to get a T-33 to 42,000' though I've heard stories of pilots doing it. Anywho, assuming zero headwind/tailwind, I could fly it 700 nautical miles (maybe a little more) or so nonstop at 28,000'. Before RVSM, I'd cruise at 35,000-37,000' and go 1000 to 1100 nautical miles nonstop.

Paul,
Isn't it true, that with ATC agreement, you can operate in RVSM airspace? Would that allow you to step climb and finish at FL420 for the remainder of the flight?

Good point, yes, though not the controllers aren't likely to give it to you in the eastern half of the continental US with the airspace being fairly congested with air traffic. While flying the T-33 I've asked for and been denied a climb into RVSM airspace every time but once heard an older non-RVSM Learjet request and receive permission so I know ATC occasionally approves it. It'd likely take a T-Bird too long to step climb and struggle up through RVSM airspace (FL290-410) to non-RVSM FL420 for a controller's comfort but it wouldn't hurt to ask. It was all I could do to get her to FL370 back in the good ol' days so on my next long cross-country flight I'd more than likely ask for no higher than that.

[AIRIC]

That looks like some nice winter fun. Got to take advantage of the nice days when they come along.

Eric

[RickH]

28,000 is good for us !

I've been told that flying the A-4 above 30 is like trying to balance it on the point of a needle. Really squirrely !

When Ritchie and I brought the F-4 back from Andrews preRVSM days center asked us if we wanted 31, he said "no we were fine where we were ". We were carrying about all the fuel we could get on board so maybe it would have taken more power than he wanted to use to stay up there ?

[Holedigger]

An F-4 pilot I have chatted with told me that it didn't handle real well at close to 100k after a zoom climb. Very exciting and very scary at the same time! Just because it can get up there doesn't mean it's a good idea!!!

[T33driver]

28,000 is good for us !

I've been told that flying the A-4 above 30 is like trying to balance it on the point of a needle. Really squirrely !

When Ritchie and I brought the F-4 back from Andrews preRVSM days center asked us if we wanted 31, he said "no we were fine where we were ". We were carrying about all the fuel we could get on board so maybe it would have taken more power than he wanted to use to stay up there ?

T-33 behaves the same way above high 28,000'--like balancing a bowling ball on a stick--but the increase in range is significant well worth the trouble! Didn't USAF F-4s have some sort of primitive autopilot or wing-leveler? Or was that only a feature in later models?