US Navy vs RAAF & RNZAF during WW2 (?)

Dad told me a few times, when he would actually talk about anything, that he and his Navy pilots would have some intense dogfights with RAAF and RNZAF pilots when either on leave or when stationed in and around Australia and NZ during the war. Dad stated he downed a few spitfires in his Hellcat and that he was downed a few times by spitfires as well. I remember dad stating he had some very good friends who were very good pilots flying with these two countries when in a bar somewhere, but in the air, he wished he was battling the Japanese instead. Dad chased a few Japanese aircraft, but never got close enough to fire on anyone, but he did tangle with several Aussies and Kiwi's ... (disclaimer: no shots were fired) Must have been a wonderful, crazy time .... Wish I knew more about this stuff ...

Sorry about the rest, got a little long winded last night.

Second disclaimer: I think it best for me to state that I may have a few facts here incorrect. I'm going by memory of stories dad told me many years ago when I was young and didn't particularly care much at the time. I certainly do now. I think the KIWI's were not in this particular story. But who knows. I would like to hear from anyone of our RAAF and RNZAF historians. This was NOT actual combat. Just training of some sort I would guess.



M

Last edited by Hellcat on Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

[Dave Homewood]

Hellcat, what did your father fly when he was in New Zealand? Which squadron was he with, and where was he based here? Did they come into a NZ port on a carrier with their aircraft, or use aircraft already here?

Hi Dave, I wish I knew more info. This is what's eating away at me these days is I know so little and had so many chances to ask over the years until it was too late ... Dad flew hellcats for a period of time with the USS Franklin and USS Hornet and I believe he was stationed somewhere in Australia for a while. Either R&R or training, not sure. I'm not sure if he was anywhere near NZ. I also know he participated in the second battle of Leyte Gulf. But so much is blurry and I'm trying with my limited time and energy to find his path through his war years. Very frustrated.

I do remember him fondly talking about playing in the air with spitfires. He greatly enjoyed Australia and the people there.

[Dave Homewood]

Can Americans apply for ex-military personnel's Service Records, like we can here? They will show every movement, every station he was at, every date, etc. Also his flying logbook would show a lot too if you can track that down.

I would imagine the Spitfires would have been in the northern Australia region As you probably know there were never any Spitfires in New Zealand during the war. There were never any RNZAF units in Australia either (though a few individuals from NZ did serve with the RAAF) so if he wasn't in NZ his acquaintences with kiwis would have been at one of our forward bases like Espiritu Santo, Plaine des Gaiac, Guadalcanal, Bougainville, Green Island, Munda, or one of the others that the RNZAF occupied I guess.

I don't believe any NZ units were involved with Leyte Gulf, as far as I know. I'm certainly interested to find more about NZ fighters training with Hellcats, if the story is right.

I know our P-40's had a few dogfights with US fighters at different times when the US pilots attacked them in combat, but that's another story.

Your guesses are as good as mine on the whole subject. My sister has dad's logbooks and hopefully someday she will send them to me. She's very busy and not interested in what we are interested in. As for NZ pilots, I may be wrong as well. I've been known to be wrong a few times. I remember the RAAF spitfire stories though, I may be getting the RNZAF pilots mixed up in the story. I'm thinking dad was in Austalia or somewhere else for a time for training or R&R and that's where he met up with the spitfire guys. He could have been a pool / replacement pilot waiting to be sent to a carrier to go out somewhere like Leyte. I'm just not sure yet. And yes, I have began researching about dad's Navy career. Not that easy a task. As time permits I'm going to try to figure out dad's Navy career from start to finish ... Let's just say it's my need to know ...

Dad did mention Wewak a few times. I wonder if he could have been there for a bit? Any RAAF or RNZAF folks there later in the war? I wish I would have paid attention more back then ...

[Dave Homewood]

You need to borrow the logbook/s, as that is the perfect starting point for all you need to know. If borrowing is not an option perhaps (if US Navy logbooks are anything like RNZAF and RAF ones) she could photocopy/digitally photograph the inside back page, which should have a full summary listed of postings and dates, plus aircraft types flown.

New Zealand was one of the main training and R&R places for the US Forces in the Pacific, they had their own camps and bases here, their own hospitals and various other things, and a lot of pre-battle training and post-battle recouperation was done in NZ. So it is very possible your father visited NZ.

There were some US squadrons active in NZ in training before going forward to the Pacific too, including Dauntless squadrons. So perhaps there were Hellcat units here too, I'm not sure.

I had never heard of Wewak before I joined WIX and believe it was well out of the area that the RNZAF operated, but I'm not sure. Possibly Aussie units involved there though.

[JDK]

I don't know how the USN operate, but for Australian and British servicemen, next of kin (that's you) are able to obtain copies of the records from the service which, as Dave says, will give you a framework to build on. That or the logbooks are the place to start.

Trying from the other end isn't really viable, and will waste a lot of time and energy on wild goose chases.

If you ask specific questions here relating to known locations/periods/units, you'll get very good answers, I'm sure. On the other hand people may well get peeved (and cease helping) if they try and help when you aren't even asking the right questions; it's the cry wolf scenario...

Why not just start a thread 'How do I research a USN pilot's career?' It'd be of use to others here, and the experts are here too.

Also you want to be careful to put 'mock combats' in this kind of question. Unfortunately there were numerous friendly fire incidents in the Pacific, which is why the central red dot was removed from most Allied forces aircraft. There are too many who remember family members killed by other allied pilots to be careless about this topic.

HTH,

[Jim MacDonald]

Mark,

Try this address:

National Archives and Records Administration
National Personnel Records Center
9700 Page Ave
St. Louis MO 63132-5100

I sent them a letter citing the Freedom of Information Act several years ago, requesting info on a couple of MIA Navy pilots I was researching. I received a FOIA Release that gave a brief run down of their personal ry & military history. One pilot`s info was very detailed including copies of his orders & other info, totaling 12 pages. The other pilot`s info wasn`t as detailed & only totaled three pages.

I believe that you don't need to mention the FOIA, just that you are a family member. Give them as much detail as you can, his Service No. (if you know it), Squadron's, etc.

Good luck,

Mac

[T33driver]

Mark,

You can apply to the Veteran's Administration to receive copies of deceased relative's service records. Not sure what the form number is. I tried for a bit on their website to track it down but couldn't find it. You could call them during business hours and get the scoop. My dad obtained my great-grandfather's US Army service record and we learned a few new things about his service in the Spanish American War. An aviators logbook is like a diary so that'd be another big piece of the puzzle as you know. Good luck!

James I know you mean well, but be careful not to lecture me. It doesn't go over too well with me. You can play school teacher with others here if you want, but not me. I'm asking you nicely BTW. I understand completely what you mean, but the way you come across can be insulting and annoying. I'm pretty good about posting my thoughts. I may have not made my thoughts very clear in this post, but most are just like me here as well. Everyone else who has responded have no problems at all. Just for you, I'll try better next time. I have several ideas on how to research dad's Navy career and I greatly appreciate all the suggestions. FYI my sister is finally going to find some time to send me dad's logbooks. So maybe next time I'll wait until I start rambling on about dad. The real reason for this thread was, as usual, to see if anyone heard similar stories and could maybe add input. I wasn't really asking for anyone's advise and suggestions on how to search for dad's history. But I really do truely thank you all. Yes I am a bit frustrated with all the holes in dad's career, but not because I have no idea how to tract this info down, but that I have very little time to research. I have only time to play here at times during the day. Maybe I'll change my ways ...

And James, I can assure you I know what next of Kin means and I certainly know how to ask questions. But thanks anyway James.

Not upset, just a little annoyed ....

[JDK]

For an ex- hockey player, Mark, you sure are an easily bruised flower. Trust me - if I wanted to patronise you, you'd see nothing, nothing, OK? (Bwahhhh. etc.)

It's not all about you and your feelings, so read on...

Like some others here, I'd like to hear about your father's career.

I'd like to help, too, but there's the smart way of doing things and there's the barfly way. Sure you can keep batting away and picking at it, but you aren't going to score goals and the rest of the team's going to be happy to see you on the bench. So smarten up, stop playing like someone called 'fridge, and start acting like Wayne Gretzky.

I'm sure you know what next of kin is - even hockey players have to put that on a form, huh? The point I was making was as next of kin you can get data I, Jack, T33driver and Jim can't easily get - but once you've got it and passed the puck, we can play hockey for ya. Like figgerin' if your dad was on North Island, South Island or Mouth Island*.

Maybe you need to get some pills for that blood pressure - I can see the temples throbbing from here...

Just funnin' son, just funnin', an Mudge would say...

Hem. Anyway. Getting the logbooks from your sister's a great step - get the gen up here as soon as ya can, and you'll be surprised at what comes out.

Have you got a summary of data (units, places) from the pics that Jack posted for you?

James the Mudgely...
PS: I eagerly anticipate your detailed response laced with cricket references...


* ~again~ this isn't about you or your paw but an inter-antipodean joke.

JDK is right, assistance for next of kin is available at places such as the Australian War Memorial (AWM), and there are dedicated private researchers who can access records for you if you live overseas or interstate, fees apply of course.

But a good starting point is

http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/

Welcome to the World War Two Nominal Roll website.The World War Two Nominal Roll was created to honour and commemorate the men and women who served in Australia's defence forces and the Merchant Navy during this conflict.This site contains information from the service records of some one million individuals who served during World War Two.You may search for service record details by specifying name, service number, honours, place (of birth, of enlistment, or residential locality at enlistment). Once you find an individual service record you can print a certificate of service, if you wish.Individuals were given an opportunity to have their service details excluded from the website prior to it being published. More detailed information about this, and the roll, is available at About this Nominal Roll.

Others that might be of assistance

The Director
Australian War Memorial
GPO Box 345
Canberra ACT 2601
AUSTRALIA

street address Treloar Crescent,
Campbell ACT
AUSTRALIA

telephone 02 62434315
facsimile 02 62434545
website http://www.awm.gov.au
research http://www.awm.gov.au/research
email info@awm.gov.au

Defence Service Records
National Archives of Australia
PO Box 7425
CANBERRA BUSINESS CENTRE ACT 2610

street address Queen Victoria Terrace
Parkes ACT 2600

telephone 1300 886 881
facsimile 1300 886 882
email ww2@naa.gov.au
website http://www.naa.gov.au
WW2 service records

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/explor ... licts.aspx

Personnel Records (RAN/RAAF)
Queanbeyan Annexe 2
Department of Defence
CANBERRA ACT 2600
facsimile 02 62665851

NZDF Archives
Personnel Enquiries
Trentham Military Camp
Private Bag 905
UPPER HUTT 5140
New Zealand
telephone +64 4 527 5280

website http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/personnel-records/nzdf-archives

[JDK]

All good stuff, Westfront, but not going to be much use for an American Navy serviceman's records, surely?

Useful, of course, if Mark gets any Kiwi or Aussie names.

All good stuff, Westfront, but not going to be much use for an American Navy serviceman's records, surely? Useful, of course, if Mark gets any Kiwi or Aussie names.

Yes thats right James

[Dave Homewood]

Like figgerin' if your dad was on North Island, South Island or Mouth Island*.

North Island is a US Navy base "stateside" isn't it?

I assume you mean The North Island and The South Island, which are the proper names of New Zealand's main two islands. Without the "the" you know you're talking to a foreigner.

As it happens very, very few US units went to the South Island, if any, in WWII. Most US bases were around Auckland (in places like Cornwall Park and Seagrove) and around Wellington (in places like Anderson Park, and Paikakareiki).

The only US involvement with the South Island I can think of was their (I think) co-operation in setting up the top secret runway at Te Pirita (Hororata in Canterbury) which if the Japanese had invaded NZ the US and NZ bomber units would have used as a main base to operate from. It was the largest runway ever built in NZ and was top secret till after the war, but pretty much never used at all. USAAF aircraft visited the South Island of course trundling US Generals around to meetings, etc, including the Swoose I believe. But that's all I've heard of.

Where is Mouth Island? I've never heard of that one.