(Re-open)F/A-18 Hornet down in San Diego 12/05
Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:22 pm
A Marine F/A-18 Hornet just went down west of Miramar Air Station in a residential area, so far one home is reported destroyed and no word on the pilot yet.
More as I get it
More as I get it
Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:26 pm
Pilot managed to eject. From our local news affilliate
SAN DIEGO -- At least one structure is on fire at the scene of that military jet crash in a residential neighborhood near Cather Avenue and Huggins Street in University City, a dispatcher says. The pilot of the plane, believed to be an F-18, reportedly ejected safely and parachuted to the ground. There are no immediate reports of injuries.
SAN DIEGO -- At least one structure is on fire at the scene of that military jet crash in a residential neighborhood near Cather Avenue and Huggins Street in University City, a dispatcher says. The pilot of the plane, believed to be an F-18, reportedly ejected safely and parachuted to the ground. There are no immediate reports of injuries.
Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:54 pm
according to yahoo 2 people are dead. 
Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:36 am
A retired Naval Aviator helped the pilot out of a tree where he landed. I feel terrible about the family in the house.
Child missing, 3 dead after jet hits house in San Diego
Story Highlights
Small child still missing; search to continue Tuesday morning
Pilot -- the jet's only occupant -- ejected safely, was taken to hospital
Report: Other homes scorched, residents ran for their lives
SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) -- A grandmother, mother and young child died when a military fighter jet crashed into a house in San Diego, California, on Monday, igniting a huge fireball, authorities said.
Another child is missing, officials said. A search ended at nightfall Monday but will continue Tuesday morning, a representative for the medical examiner said.
The father is a businessman who was at work at the time of the crash and was not reached for comment, according to the San Diego Union-Tribune.
The F/A-18D plane, which authorities described as disabled, was trying to land at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar. The jet had just performed landing training on a Navy aircraft carrier before the pilot reported having trouble, according to the Marine Corps. See satellite photo showing crash site, airfield »
"It was, oh gosh, maybe a couple of hundred feet off the ground. And it was quiet -- I think the engine was off," said San Diego resident Ian Lerner, who was heading to lunch at a shopping center about a half-mile from the neighborhood of about 20 homes when he saw the jet flying low. iReport.com: See Lerner's photos
"Then all of a sudden, we saw the canopy of the jet explode and go up, and then we saw the pilot blast out of the plane and the parachute open," Lerner said.
Another witness said the jet was flying at a low altitude, and "just spiraled, right out of [the movie] 'Top Gun.'" Watch witnesses describe the scene »
The house was destroyed. A photograph taken at the scene showed the pilot, who ejected safely, sitting on the front lawn, making a call on his cell phone. He was taken to the hospital, the Marine Corps said in a written statement Monday. Watch burning debris near crash site »
The pilot, whose name was not released, was the only occupant of the two-seat aircraft, according to the Marine Corps.
The Union-Tribune spoke with Steve Diamond, a retired naval aviator, who said he found the pilot in a tree behind a house. He told the paper he helped the man, who Diamond said was a lieutenant in his 20s, down from the tree.
The pilot told him that after he lost power in one engine, it was decided he would try to get the jet to Miramar on the single working engine, Diamond told the paper.
The pilot was in communication with military air traffic controllers before the jet crashed, and the crash site is about two miles from the airfield, the Federal Aviation Administration said.
According to the Los Angeles Times, the pilot ejected moments before the crash and landed without injury in a tree about two miles from Miramar. Jason Widmer told the paper he talked to the pilot, who said he had tried to steer the jet from the homes and into a brushy canyon.
"He was pretty shook up and pretty concerned if he had killed anyone," Widmer told the Times. "He had seen his bird go into a house."
A retired general, a pilot who has flown for 40 years and more than 270 missions in Vietnam, said the decision to eject is up to the pilot. F/A-18D planes are very dependable, but any aircraft is given to error.
That model has two engines, and it can operate with one engine fine. But if one engine malfunctions, it's possible that a blade can break off and fly into the other engine, causing it to malfunction, too. If both engines are inoperable, and the plane descends below 10,000 feet, it's likely the pilot will soon lose control.
When the pilot pulls a ring-like lever between his legs, a series of automatic actions is set off: The pilot's harness comes loose, and he is pushed through a canopy, which is rigged to facilitate him breaking through it without causing injury. A pilot can opt to manually activate his parachute, but if he doesn't, the parachute will open on a timer.
The plane would crash randomly once the pilot is no longer in control.
Burning debris scorched two additional homes, and a piece of the jet struck another home. "This could have wiped out half a dozen homes, depending on how it landed," said Maurice Luque, a spokesman for the San Diego Fire-Rescue Department. See photos of fiery crash site »
Inside one of those houses, Robert Johnson sat in his living room with his daughter, Heather Certain, and her 2-year-old son, Nicholas, according to the Union-Tribune. They heard the explosion, then saw a giant fireball in the picture window facing their front yard, the newspaper reported. They ran out of the house. Watch aerial footage of crash site »
"The house shook like an earthquake," Johnson said. "I saw the flames right there in front of my house."
iReporter Chris Morrow of San Diego said she went to the crash site Monday and saw "two houses that looked like they'd blown up."
The Marine Corps said it is investigating what went wrong with the plane. The military has jurisdiction over the crash site. iReport.com: Smoke rises from fiery crash
Child missing, 3 dead after jet hits house in San Diego
Story Highlights
Small child still missing; search to continue Tuesday morning
Pilot -- the jet's only occupant -- ejected safely, was taken to hospital
Report: Other homes scorched, residents ran for their lives
SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) -- A grandmother, mother and young child died when a military fighter jet crashed into a house in San Diego, California, on Monday, igniting a huge fireball, authorities said.
Another child is missing, officials said. A search ended at nightfall Monday but will continue Tuesday morning, a representative for the medical examiner said.
The father is a businessman who was at work at the time of the crash and was not reached for comment, according to the San Diego Union-Tribune.
The F/A-18D plane, which authorities described as disabled, was trying to land at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar. The jet had just performed landing training on a Navy aircraft carrier before the pilot reported having trouble, according to the Marine Corps. See satellite photo showing crash site, airfield »
"It was, oh gosh, maybe a couple of hundred feet off the ground. And it was quiet -- I think the engine was off," said San Diego resident Ian Lerner, who was heading to lunch at a shopping center about a half-mile from the neighborhood of about 20 homes when he saw the jet flying low. iReport.com: See Lerner's photos
"Then all of a sudden, we saw the canopy of the jet explode and go up, and then we saw the pilot blast out of the plane and the parachute open," Lerner said.
Another witness said the jet was flying at a low altitude, and "just spiraled, right out of [the movie] 'Top Gun.'" Watch witnesses describe the scene »
The house was destroyed. A photograph taken at the scene showed the pilot, who ejected safely, sitting on the front lawn, making a call on his cell phone. He was taken to the hospital, the Marine Corps said in a written statement Monday. Watch burning debris near crash site »
The pilot, whose name was not released, was the only occupant of the two-seat aircraft, according to the Marine Corps.
The Union-Tribune spoke with Steve Diamond, a retired naval aviator, who said he found the pilot in a tree behind a house. He told the paper he helped the man, who Diamond said was a lieutenant in his 20s, down from the tree.
The pilot told him that after he lost power in one engine, it was decided he would try to get the jet to Miramar on the single working engine, Diamond told the paper.
The pilot was in communication with military air traffic controllers before the jet crashed, and the crash site is about two miles from the airfield, the Federal Aviation Administration said.
According to the Los Angeles Times, the pilot ejected moments before the crash and landed without injury in a tree about two miles from Miramar. Jason Widmer told the paper he talked to the pilot, who said he had tried to steer the jet from the homes and into a brushy canyon.
"He was pretty shook up and pretty concerned if he had killed anyone," Widmer told the Times. "He had seen his bird go into a house."
A retired general, a pilot who has flown for 40 years and more than 270 missions in Vietnam, said the decision to eject is up to the pilot. F/A-18D planes are very dependable, but any aircraft is given to error.
That model has two engines, and it can operate with one engine fine. But if one engine malfunctions, it's possible that a blade can break off and fly into the other engine, causing it to malfunction, too. If both engines are inoperable, and the plane descends below 10,000 feet, it's likely the pilot will soon lose control.
When the pilot pulls a ring-like lever between his legs, a series of automatic actions is set off: The pilot's harness comes loose, and he is pushed through a canopy, which is rigged to facilitate him breaking through it without causing injury. A pilot can opt to manually activate his parachute, but if he doesn't, the parachute will open on a timer.
The plane would crash randomly once the pilot is no longer in control.
Burning debris scorched two additional homes, and a piece of the jet struck another home. "This could have wiped out half a dozen homes, depending on how it landed," said Maurice Luque, a spokesman for the San Diego Fire-Rescue Department. See photos of fiery crash site »
Inside one of those houses, Robert Johnson sat in his living room with his daughter, Heather Certain, and her 2-year-old son, Nicholas, according to the Union-Tribune. They heard the explosion, then saw a giant fireball in the picture window facing their front yard, the newspaper reported. They ran out of the house. Watch aerial footage of crash site »
"The house shook like an earthquake," Johnson said. "I saw the flames right there in front of my house."
iReporter Chris Morrow of San Diego said she went to the crash site Monday and saw "two houses that looked like they'd blown up."
The Marine Corps said it is investigating what went wrong with the plane. The military has jurisdiction over the crash site. iReport.com: Smoke rises from fiery crash
Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:51 am
I pray for the families of those killed and for the pilot and his family. I can't imagine the grief he is feeling right now. I guarantee if he could switch places he would.
SD
Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:16 pm
That is a tough and tragic situation. I learned to fly there, at Montgomery Field which is just south of Miramar. We almost shared the same pattern when we were in downwind north of MYF and they were south of Miramar. That's the base from "TOP GUN". There are houses to the west of the runway, but there is or was also some open space in rough ground farther west before you go over the last ridge before the coast where housing is dense again. When I used to take off, I'd look down and think about where I'd go in case of emergency. There was really no where except busy streets when going west. SD is busy airspace wise, there are 5 airports, 2 military bases, 1 airline and gen av, and 2 gen av in town. It is a major military area with aircraft and many ships in the harbor.
It's too bad he could not have ejected over the beach with the plane heading out to sea, or maybe even go into NAS Coronado which might have less housing around it. Who knows when he flamed out or lost control, or how much time and altitude he had to plan or deal with? He might have been given controller instructions to come back to the base. There are flocks of gulls and birds around there, it is real possible that he ingested them into the engine.
Some years ago a 737 ? , blinded by looking into the sun, ran over a Cessna 182 and both went down in the city with all lost. I don't think anyone was hurt on the ground.
It's too bad he could not have ejected over the beach with the plane heading out to sea, or maybe even go into NAS Coronado which might have less housing around it. Who knows when he flamed out or lost control, or how much time and altitude he had to plan or deal with? He might have been given controller instructions to come back to the base. There are flocks of gulls and birds around there, it is real possible that he ingested them into the engine.
Some years ago a 737 ? , blinded by looking into the sun, ran over a Cessna 182 and both went down in the city with all lost. I don't think anyone was hurt on the ground.
Re: SD
Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:06 pm
Bill Greenwood wrote:It's too bad he could not have ejected over the beach with the plane heading out to sea, or maybe even go into NAS Coronado which might have less housing around it. Who knows when he flamed out or lost control, or how much time and altitude he had to plan or deal with? He might have been given controller instructions to come back to the base. There are flocks of gulls and birds around there, it is real possible that he ingested them into the engine.
He all ready had one engine failed/shut down and was returning to land for that emergency.
When the other one quit (who knows why...birds are just as valid an idea as any other), that leaves you VERY short of options. The Hornet, like the Eagle, has hydraulically-operated flight controls that don't work when there are no engines operating to power the pumps.
2,000 feet is the minimum safe bailout altitude for the ACES II seat. I don't know what the altitude for the Hornet's Martin-Baker seat is, but I'm betting it is similar. So, if he was at/around 2,000 feet when the second motor quit, he would have a few seconds to assess if a re-start was possible, and then he'd have to pull the handles right away. He'd have little/no opportunity to steer the airplane *anywhere*, depending on the exact nature of the failures. 45,000-pound fighters with no thrust that are all ready slow don't glide well at all....
Re: SD
Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:49 pm
Randy Haskin wrote:2,000 feet is the minimum safe bailout altitude for the ACES II seat. I don't know what the altitude for the Hornet's Martin-Baker seat is, but I'm betting it is similar.
Not at all, according to http://www.martin-baker.com/getdoc/9510ac38-37c2-4828-b0f9-95ca1a694f49/Mk--10.aspx the seats supplied for the F-18 are good down to ground level ( at zero speed). I would be very surprised if a modern US seat did not provide similar performanc. Ah, yes, here we are: http://www.upco.goodrich.com/products/eject/acesii.shtml. Goodrich do claim zero-zero capability fo the ACES II.
Re: ???
Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:19 pm
Jack Cook wrote:Not at all,
Never argue with someone who rides one for a living :shock: :idea:
Fair enough - I'd be interested in reason for the discrepancy between the manufacturers claims and a 2000 ft limitation though, that's quite a differerence.
Re: SD
Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:05 pm
Bill Greenwood wrote:Some years ago a 737 ? , blinded by looking into the sun, ran over a Cessna 182 and both went down in the city with all lost. I don't think anyone was hurt on the ground.
Uh, not quite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_Flight_182
Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:19 pm
They found the remains of the missing child so there is four confirmed dead. Very tragic.
I wish that the media would call the Blue Angels a precision flight demonstration team instead of stunt flying team.
Les
I wish that the media would call the Blue Angels a precision flight demonstration team instead of stunt flying team.
Les
Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:42 pm
That accident (PSA vs Cessna) was the genesis of terminal control airspace.
Re: SD
Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:13 pm
Randy Haskin wrote:Bill Greenwood wrote:It's too bad he could not have ejected over the beach with the plane heading out to sea, or maybe even go into NAS Coronado which might have less housing around it. Who knows when he flamed out or lost control, or how much time and altitude he had to plan or deal with? He might have been given controller instructions to come back to the base. There are flocks of gulls and birds around there, it is real possible that he ingested them into the engine.
He all ready had one engine failed/shut down and was returning to land for that emergency.
When the other one quit (who knows why...birds are just as valid an idea as any other), that leaves you VERY short of options. The Hornet, like the Eagle, has hydraulically-operated flight controls that don't work when there are no engines operating to power the pumps.
2,000 feet is the minimum safe bailout altitude for the ACES II seat. I don't know what the altitude for the Hornet's Martin-Baker seat is, but I'm betting it is similar. So, if he was at/around 2,000 feet when the second motor quit, he would have a few seconds to assess if a re-start was possible, and then he'd have to pull the handles right away. He'd have little/no opportunity to steer the airplane *anywhere*, depending on the exact nature of the failures. 45,000-pound fighters with no thrust that are all ready slow don't glide well at all....
Question randy???? They dont have RAT's????
PSA
Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:29 pm
Jesse, after about 25 years my memory is not exact. I guess I recalled the plane as a 182 instead of 172 because that was the flight number. I wasn't sure about the jet model, that's why I put the ? after it.
I knew all on the planes were lost, could not remember about those on the ground. Having learned to fly there right in that same airspace, and landed at both those airports, I know how hard it can be to pick up an plane against the cluttered background, especially looking into the 9am morning sun. The 727 came down the coast, then turned inland, east, on downwind for Lindberg and was looking right into it.[/i]
I knew all on the planes were lost, could not remember about those on the ground. Having learned to fly there right in that same airspace, and landed at both those airports, I know how hard it can be to pick up an plane against the cluttered background, especially looking into the 9am morning sun. The 727 came down the coast, then turned inland, east, on downwind for Lindberg and was looking right into it.[/i]