Yale on ebay
Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:01 am
Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:58 am
Looks pretty good. Mike Connors builds a great engine. Doesnt have the correct heater exhaust, no wheel pants or radio mast. I will be very surprised if it meets reserve, no matter what it is.
Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:46 pm
Some years back I owned Yale 3355 for a short time and found it to be simply delightful to fly. Almost as fast as a T6 and simple systems . . . with much better control harmony and lighter feel.
The Yale wing was one of the predecessors used in the design of the AT6 series. The center section had less span and the outer wing panels did not have the slight rake back along the leading edge like the T6. Also, no washout or twist in the wing.
(To design the T6-Harvard, the center section had to be widened to accomodate the inward retractable wheels. Plus the outer wing panels were changed for easier stall characteristics.)
Yes, the Yale's stall has been portrayed by many as viscious . . . but I found it not to be quite that bad. Like some higher performance aircraft, getting slow (in this case below 70 mph) on the base to final turn, plus a cross control, would start a snap. As long as one unloaded the wing right then, it was controllable. So I used 80 mph (minimum) on base to final and kept the ball in the center.
About the only thing I did not like was the constant cleaning. The Wright engine (or maybe at least the one I had) seemed to leak and spew oil a lot, even after repeated efforts of tightening hoses. One did not have to worry about fuselage corrosion . . .
All in all, very fond memories.
Doug Jackson
Owner, Pilot TORA 101
(Harvard IV modified)
The Yale wing was one of the predecessors used in the design of the AT6 series. The center section had less span and the outer wing panels did not have the slight rake back along the leading edge like the T6. Also, no washout or twist in the wing.
(To design the T6-Harvard, the center section had to be widened to accomodate the inward retractable wheels. Plus the outer wing panels were changed for easier stall characteristics.)
Yes, the Yale's stall has been portrayed by many as viscious . . . but I found it not to be quite that bad. Like some higher performance aircraft, getting slow (in this case below 70 mph) on the base to final turn, plus a cross control, would start a snap. As long as one unloaded the wing right then, it was controllable. So I used 80 mph (minimum) on base to final and kept the ball in the center.
About the only thing I did not like was the constant cleaning. The Wright engine (or maybe at least the one I had) seemed to leak and spew oil a lot, even after repeated efforts of tightening hoses. One did not have to worry about fuselage corrosion . . .
All in all, very fond memories.
Doug Jackson
Owner, Pilot TORA 101
(Harvard IV modified)
Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:54 pm
where are the halfed wheel pants??
Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:45 am
Doug Wrote:
Doug,
Was that the one that Bob (forgot last name) later owned at a little grass strip in Wichita? I thought that one went to the east coast, traded for a Great Lakes?
Eric
Some years back I owned Yale 3355 for a short time and found it to be simply delightful to fly. Almost as fast as a T6 and simple systems . . . with much better control harmony and lighter feel.
The Yale wing was one of the predecessors used in the design of the AT6 series. The center section had less span and the outer wing panels did not have the slight rake back along the leading edge like the T6. Also, no washout or twist in the wing.
(To design the T6-Harvard, the center section had to be widened to accomodate the inward retractable wheels. Plus the outer wing panels were changed for easier stall characteristics.)
Yes, the Yale's stall has been portrayed by many as viscious . . . but I found it not to be quite that bad. Like some higher performance aircraft, getting slow (in this case below 70 mph) on the base to final turn, plus a cross control, would start a snap. As long as one unloaded the wing right then, it was controllable. So I used 80 mph (minimum) on base to final and kept the ball in the center.
About the only thing I did not like was the constant cleaning. The Wright engine (or maybe at least the one I had) seemed to leak and spew oil a lot, even after repeated efforts of tightening hoses. One did not have to worry about fuselage corrosion . . .
All in all, very fond memories.
Doug,
Was that the one that Bob (forgot last name) later owned at a little grass strip in Wichita? I thought that one went to the east coast, traded for a Great Lakes?
Eric
Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:09 am
Yes, the Yale's stall has been portrayed by many as viscious . . . but I found it not to be quite that bad.
I talked to a guy selling an airworthy one, and he said he was afraid to stall it, and never did. So how exactly does it stall? What speed? How much altitude is lost?
Thanks
Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:23 am
A2C Wrote:
Check out this thread, I wrote quite a bit about it some time ago.
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... 11&start=0
I talked to a guy selling an airworthy one, and he said he was afraid to stall it, and never did. So how exactly does it stall? What speed? How much altitude is lost?
Check out this thread, I wrote quite a bit about it some time ago.
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... 11&start=0
Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:58 am
I didn't see much tere regarding the Yale.
Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:12 am
page 2 two thirds down.
Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:29 am
Thanks Eric!
The Yale
Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:12 pm
From the thread that Eric is talking about. Posted on 12/04/07. All Yales should be placed on popsicle sticks just like all SOKO 522s. 
I don't have any PIC time in the heavy iron like the P-51, F4U, Sea Fury, or Skyraider types but I've got about 750 hours in a Stearman and 250 or so in an SNJ. Most of the rest of my time is in odd ball antiques and most of that time is in the pattern. I've always considered a plane's flying characteristics as a "complete package". What does it do or feel like from the time you taxi out until the time you taxi back in. You don't really get to know an airplane until you've stalled it, spun it, rolled it, landed it in a strong crosswind, simulated a dead stick landing etc. At least that's my take on this stuff. I've had a few people tell me that "no airplanes fly badly, some of them just fly differently than others" That's like saying "there is no bad beer, some beer is just better than other beer" Bullsh*t! I've had some really bad beer and I've flown some really crappy airplanes.
Ah, the Yale. Let me tell you about that little gem.
So Eric Downing is busy in the hangar one day and his buddy John Lohmar is headed back out in the Yale by himself. "Hey Albert" says Eric, have you ever been in my Yale? The next thing I know, I'm sitting in the back seat of the Yale, headed down the runway. Hmm, seems like our SNJ, smells like our SNJ, about the same view as our SNJ, the controls sure look like our SNJ, and in level flight it sure handles like our SJN. Gear down and welded, minus 150 HP, but other than that, it's a T-6/SNJ.
Sure it is.
So John Lohmar says, "hey Albert, I got it", "Let me show you something". With that, John cranks down some flaps and starts to pull off some power. No problem, I'm just along for the ride, I guess John's going to show me a stall. I start to enjoy the nice view of St. Charles/St. Louis, Missouri area below and by this time I'm resting my head against the canopy. WHAM! My head bounces off the inside of the canopy and we're in a half snap, up is down and down is up and I'm really pissed off. "Hey John, what the heck was that?" "Sorry Albert, I just thought you would like to see how different this thing stalls compared to the SNJ". So I'm thinking, ok, smart a$$ airline pilot/warbird pilot is trying to see if he can bring back the hangover that I've spent most of the day trying to get rid of. I know John's five times the pilot I am but this time, I've got him. I've got lots more time in this kind of stuff. I'll show him. Right on cue comes John on the intercom. "Hey Albert, want to try it?". "You bet, rack em, set it up just like that last one but this time let me show you what happens when you keep the ball centered and the wings level" (all said to myself). So up we go, I've got the flaps half down, I'm pulling a bit more power off, now I'm cranking in the rest of the flaps, I'm watching the airspeed, balls in the middle, wings level....WHAM!!! *&#*@!% What the F*%K! Holy Sh*t! How did that happen! no buffet, no noise, no warning. Now I'm really mad and a bit embarrased but I regain my composure and ask for another try. We climb back up and I try it again, this time with a bit more power but this time I'm like a cougar ready to pounce on it's prey, my lightning quick Judo like reflexes had been lulled to sleep by our sightseeing trip over the Missouri corn fields but two "head smacks" against the canopy have awakened the crouching tiger within me.....WHAM! *&^%!*$ Pineapple upside down cake again. I recover after loosing about 900 feet of altitude and roll out on a heading of 425 degrees somewhere over southern Indiana. Little did I know that John had the ball dead centered and the wings perfectly level on the first demo, probably better than I did on either attempt. Try that with a T-6/SNJ and it will shudder and shake long before it departs. It will scream "let go dumb a$$" long before you manage to snap into a spin, inside or over the top. Not the Yale! It sits in the corner, coiled up like a rattle snake, ready to bite when you are paying the least attention. Oh, and then there's that landing gear. Taller and more narrow than the T-6/SNJ's, when combined with a stiff cross wind and the Yale's considerable wing dihedral, it's a real party to land. The Yale reminds me of a peach of a plane that I once owned, a SOKO 522. Another type that belongs in a static museum! But that's another story.
_________________
Albert Stix Jr.
"Work is the curse of the drinking class"
I don't have any PIC time in the heavy iron like the P-51, F4U, Sea Fury, or Skyraider types but I've got about 750 hours in a Stearman and 250 or so in an SNJ. Most of the rest of my time is in odd ball antiques and most of that time is in the pattern. I've always considered a plane's flying characteristics as a "complete package". What does it do or feel like from the time you taxi out until the time you taxi back in. You don't really get to know an airplane until you've stalled it, spun it, rolled it, landed it in a strong crosswind, simulated a dead stick landing etc. At least that's my take on this stuff. I've had a few people tell me that "no airplanes fly badly, some of them just fly differently than others" That's like saying "there is no bad beer, some beer is just better than other beer" Bullsh*t! I've had some really bad beer and I've flown some really crappy airplanes.
Ah, the Yale. Let me tell you about that little gem.
So Eric Downing is busy in the hangar one day and his buddy John Lohmar is headed back out in the Yale by himself. "Hey Albert" says Eric, have you ever been in my Yale? The next thing I know, I'm sitting in the back seat of the Yale, headed down the runway. Hmm, seems like our SNJ, smells like our SNJ, about the same view as our SNJ, the controls sure look like our SNJ, and in level flight it sure handles like our SJN. Gear down and welded, minus 150 HP, but other than that, it's a T-6/SNJ.
Sure it is.
So John Lohmar says, "hey Albert, I got it", "Let me show you something". With that, John cranks down some flaps and starts to pull off some power. No problem, I'm just along for the ride, I guess John's going to show me a stall. I start to enjoy the nice view of St. Charles/St. Louis, Missouri area below and by this time I'm resting my head against the canopy. WHAM! My head bounces off the inside of the canopy and we're in a half snap, up is down and down is up and I'm really pissed off. "Hey John, what the heck was that?" "Sorry Albert, I just thought you would like to see how different this thing stalls compared to the SNJ". So I'm thinking, ok, smart a$$ airline pilot/warbird pilot is trying to see if he can bring back the hangover that I've spent most of the day trying to get rid of. I know John's five times the pilot I am but this time, I've got him. I've got lots more time in this kind of stuff. I'll show him. Right on cue comes John on the intercom. "Hey Albert, want to try it?". "You bet, rack em, set it up just like that last one but this time let me show you what happens when you keep the ball centered and the wings level" (all said to myself). So up we go, I've got the flaps half down, I'm pulling a bit more power off, now I'm cranking in the rest of the flaps, I'm watching the airspeed, balls in the middle, wings level....WHAM!!! *&#*@!% What the F*%K! Holy Sh*t! How did that happen! no buffet, no noise, no warning. Now I'm really mad and a bit embarrased but I regain my composure and ask for another try. We climb back up and I try it again, this time with a bit more power but this time I'm like a cougar ready to pounce on it's prey, my lightning quick Judo like reflexes had been lulled to sleep by our sightseeing trip over the Missouri corn fields but two "head smacks" against the canopy have awakened the crouching tiger within me.....WHAM! *&^%!*$ Pineapple upside down cake again. I recover after loosing about 900 feet of altitude and roll out on a heading of 425 degrees somewhere over southern Indiana. Little did I know that John had the ball dead centered and the wings perfectly level on the first demo, probably better than I did on either attempt. Try that with a T-6/SNJ and it will shudder and shake long before it departs. It will scream "let go dumb a$$" long before you manage to snap into a spin, inside or over the top. Not the Yale! It sits in the corner, coiled up like a rattle snake, ready to bite when you are paying the least attention. Oh, and then there's that landing gear. Taller and more narrow than the T-6/SNJ's, when combined with a stiff cross wind and the Yale's considerable wing dihedral, it's a real party to land. The Yale reminds me of a peach of a plane that I once owned, a SOKO 522. Another type that belongs in a static museum! But that's another story.
_________________
Albert Stix Jr.
"Work is the curse of the drinking class"
Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:49 pm
Bob Bradshaw was the local fellow who bought mine. He kept it a few years before selling it, believe he took a Luscombe in trade (?). Bobby had most of his previous flight time in a Stearman and after hearing all of the horrors on the Yale after he bought 3355, was downright scared of it.
I did stall mine when I owned it, both clean and with flaps down. For me, as long as I unloaded promptly, yes it would roll off . . . about 45 degrees in both configurations, but a quick recovery back to level was not a problem. I never let it fully snap over, though.
I cannot speak for other Yales since 3355 was the only one I flew, but certainly the stories are out there. Don't have a clue if mine was just rigged or even bent a certain way unlike the others, or not.
Doug Jackson
Owner-Pilot, TORA 101
I did stall mine when I owned it, both clean and with flaps down. For me, as long as I unloaded promptly, yes it would roll off . . . about 45 degrees in both configurations, but a quick recovery back to level was not a problem. I never let it fully snap over, though.
I cannot speak for other Yales since 3355 was the only one I flew, but certainly the stories are out there. Don't have a clue if mine was just rigged or even bent a certain way unlike the others, or not.
Doug Jackson
Owner-Pilot, TORA 101
Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:59 pm
Interesting. I've heard a Canadian guy let his friend fly his, and he was on the ground. His friend buzzed him, and pulled up abruptly. After that the plane spun in, and the guy was killed.
The guy owned a Harvard, and according to the Canadian guy he assumed it was like a Harvard. Very sad story.
The guy owned a Harvard, and according to the Canadian guy he assumed it was like a Harvard. Very sad story.
Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:48 pm
Save (or borrow) a few more pesos and buy a T-6. Larger community (parts and formation buddies), better airplane, and if you want to transition to an airplane we all dream of flying, it's the logical step. PS If you're looking for a less expensive warbird than the '6, Mark Clark has a really nice BT-13 for sale. The BT has a much better place in history and better pedigree than the Yale.
Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:58 pm
a local owner of a canadian yale has 1 w/ an elongated exhaust stack on the right side of the engine. was this a standard set up?? btw.... it is far from air worthy.