Indonesia
Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:51 pm
Hello Folks:
The Morotai thread was getting a little long, and increasingly about Indonesia itself; so, here's a more appropriate thread.
Did some talking to several people who know things about Indonesia, and here's what I've come up with:
A couple Australians I've talked to over the weekend feel that Indonesia itself is trouble, one says he wouldn't go anywhere over there without a machine gun, and that Indonesia=(Iraq+Vietnam)x50.
An American at the local airport says; Indonesia is full of Muslims just like Iraq and Sudan, and those places are poor, full of strife, and generally in a state of civil war. He said generally that Indonesians are uncouth, and basically savages.
Brad Pilgrim, a WIXER, says that he felt very unconfortable there.
My boss has been all over Indonesia himself. He's been to the Celebes, Java, Bali, Sulawesi, Borneo, and Irian Jaya. He said Indonesia is fine, and he had no trouble whatsoever, while there.
Airmanual says he's worked there for an extended period of time.
I'm not going to make a conclusion a from all of this data, except that based on the information that I've gathered that I will go.
The Indonesia Photo website says the only hot spots are south of Halmahera, Ambon, and Timor. This is where Muslim/Christian civil war has occured or is winding down. To stay away from here. I'd agree there.
The Morotai thread was getting a little long, and increasingly about Indonesia itself; so, here's a more appropriate thread.
Did some talking to several people who know things about Indonesia, and here's what I've come up with:
A couple Australians I've talked to over the weekend feel that Indonesia itself is trouble, one says he wouldn't go anywhere over there without a machine gun, and that Indonesia=(Iraq+Vietnam)x50.
An American at the local airport says; Indonesia is full of Muslims just like Iraq and Sudan, and those places are poor, full of strife, and generally in a state of civil war. He said generally that Indonesians are uncouth, and basically savages.
Brad Pilgrim, a WIXER, says that he felt very unconfortable there.
My boss has been all over Indonesia himself. He's been to the Celebes, Java, Bali, Sulawesi, Borneo, and Irian Jaya. He said Indonesia is fine, and he had no trouble whatsoever, while there.
Airmanual says he's worked there for an extended period of time.
I'm not going to make a conclusion a from all of this data, except that based on the information that I've gathered that I will go.
The Indonesia Photo website says the only hot spots are south of Halmahera, Ambon, and Timor. This is where Muslim/Christian civil war has occured or is winding down. To stay away from here. I'd agree there.
Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:32 pm
The following is a travel advisory from the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
www.dfat.gov.au
"Australians should defer non-essential travel to Indonesia. Australians in Indonesia who are concerned for their safety should consider departing. Australians who consider their presence in Indonesia to be essential should exercise extreme caution. We continue to receive reports that terrorists in the region are planning attacks against a range of targets. These attacks could occur at any time, anywhere in Indonesia and could be directed against any locations known to be frequented by foreigners. The bomb attack outside the Australian Embassy on 9 September 2004 underscores the ongoing terrorist threat to Australians in Indonesia.
The recommendation that Australians defer non-essential travel applies to Indonesia as a whole, including Bali. Australians should avoid all travel to Aceh and Maluku province, particularly Ambon. Australians in Aceh and Maluku should depart."
The British Embassy in Jakarta has issued the following.
www.fco.gov.uk
"There remains a high threat from terrorism in Indonesia. We continue to receive reports that terrorists in Indonesia are planning further attacks on Westerners and Western interests. Attacks could occur at any time, anywhere in Indonesia and are likely to be directed against locations frequented by foreigners. Terrorists have shown in previous attacks, like the attack on the Australian Embassy and the Bali bombings, that they have the means and the motivation to carry out successful attacks."
It is true that these advisories are generally talking about terrorism against foreigners more than problems with the myriad of seperatist movements and Moslem V Christian clashes. However, it does paint a picture of a government that is really struggling to keep control over some pretty emotive people.
Walrus
www.dfat.gov.au
"Australians should defer non-essential travel to Indonesia. Australians in Indonesia who are concerned for their safety should consider departing. Australians who consider their presence in Indonesia to be essential should exercise extreme caution. We continue to receive reports that terrorists in the region are planning attacks against a range of targets. These attacks could occur at any time, anywhere in Indonesia and could be directed against any locations known to be frequented by foreigners. The bomb attack outside the Australian Embassy on 9 September 2004 underscores the ongoing terrorist threat to Australians in Indonesia.
The recommendation that Australians defer non-essential travel applies to Indonesia as a whole, including Bali. Australians should avoid all travel to Aceh and Maluku province, particularly Ambon. Australians in Aceh and Maluku should depart."
The British Embassy in Jakarta has issued the following.
www.fco.gov.uk
"There remains a high threat from terrorism in Indonesia. We continue to receive reports that terrorists in Indonesia are planning further attacks on Westerners and Western interests. Attacks could occur at any time, anywhere in Indonesia and are likely to be directed against locations frequented by foreigners. Terrorists have shown in previous attacks, like the attack on the Australian Embassy and the Bali bombings, that they have the means and the motivation to carry out successful attacks."
It is true that these advisories are generally talking about terrorism against foreigners more than problems with the myriad of seperatist movements and Moslem V Christian clashes. However, it does paint a picture of a government that is really struggling to keep control over some pretty emotive people.
Walrus
Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:09 pm
Rob:
Not sure what to say.
Not sure what to say.
Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:16 pm
HI IF YOUR HART IS SET ON IT THEN DO IT BUT BEWARE OF THE MANY PITFALLS.IF ANYTHING BRING US BACK SOME PHOTOS AND TAILS OF YOUR ADVENTURE. 
IT COULD BE THE TRIP OF A LIFETIME AND WE ALL AWAIT YOUR RETURN UNLESS YOUR JUST BLOWING ALOT OF SMOKE.GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY HUNTING THANKS MIKE
IT COULD BE THE TRIP OF A LIFETIME AND WE ALL AWAIT YOUR RETURN UNLESS YOUR JUST BLOWING ALOT OF SMOKE.GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY HUNTING THANKS MIKE
Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:23 pm
As far as Indonesia is concerned I have to think that the folks who've warned are right. On Sunday in our church's meeting, we were read a letter from some friends of one of the elders. Some young men who are sons of friends of his were in Jacarta (I think) when the tsunami struck and spent 3 or so days helping on one of the islands (I think it's one not mentioned above). Anyway, they were able to help a lot of folks and said that the damage was even worse than the media was reporting, but that they were finally forced to leave as some of the medical/police personnel who were trying to help tsunami victims were attacked by Muslim rebels and they were personally threatened just before they had to leave. You have got to understand that these people are crazy. I mean these are medical teams trying to help folks and they're being shot at. I wonder what they'd think of someone coming in to find stuff...
Ryan
Ryan
Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:35 pm
Ryan, I wrote:
You wrote:
It doesn't matter who is wrong or right, if you read my quote above I'm not going to make any conclusion until all data is gathered.
I'm not going to make a conclusion a from all of this data, except that based on the information that I've gathered that I will go.
You wrote:
As far as Indonesia is concerned I have to think that the folks who've warned are right.
It doesn't matter who is wrong or right, if you read my quote above I'm not going to make any conclusion until all data is gathered.
Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:41 pm
Chris,
Have you tried the simple approach of contacting the Indonesian embassy in DC and asking what their policy is regarding WWII artifacts?
Walrus
Have you tried the simple approach of contacting the Indonesian embassy in DC and asking what their policy is regarding WWII artifacts?
Walrus
Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:04 pm
Good question Walrus:
That's one thing I haven't done. I tried to contact the U.S. embassy in PNG, and the Marshalls. They both are either very slow to respond or don't respond at all.
Chris
That's one thing I haven't done. I tried to contact the U.S. embassy in PNG, and the Marshalls. They both are either very slow to respond or don't respond at all.
Chris
Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:50 am
Hi
My wife ran an Indonesial IT company for 3 years and I have been there a fair bit. You are reasonably safe in tourist destinations although the Bali bombing proves you are never really safe as well as the Australian Embassy bombing and lots of individual attacks.
I would suggest you be very careful and keep in contact at all times so someone knows where you are at regular intervals. DO NOT carry a GUN it is a good way of getting killed or going to jail. Do not try to bribe or pay anybody for information about about aircraft remains - they are smart and will play you along. Stay in prominant locations overnight.
Stay as inconspicious as possible and don't push your nationality - Yanks and Aussies aren't popular there.
Stay away from Northern coastal areas around Ache as this is where the Tsumani hit with full force.
I would wait a couple of months until the damage is repaired and the effects of the aid have softened their perceptions.
Regards
John P
My wife ran an Indonesial IT company for 3 years and I have been there a fair bit. You are reasonably safe in tourist destinations although the Bali bombing proves you are never really safe as well as the Australian Embassy bombing and lots of individual attacks.
I would suggest you be very careful and keep in contact at all times so someone knows where you are at regular intervals. DO NOT carry a GUN it is a good way of getting killed or going to jail. Do not try to bribe or pay anybody for information about about aircraft remains - they are smart and will play you along. Stay in prominant locations overnight.
Stay as inconspicious as possible and don't push your nationality - Yanks and Aussies aren't popular there.
Stay away from Northern coastal areas around Ache as this is where the Tsumani hit with full force.
I would wait a couple of months until the damage is repaired and the effects of the aid have softened their perceptions.
Regards
John P
Santa Setter
Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:03 am
Smart words Setter... Thanx...
This is an anomoly! You say, basically, "Stay low, but stay in prominent
locations"... but the 'gubment says, "popular locations are those being
targeted"!!! Given that revelation...it's a "dicey" place to be, or feel safe!!!
This is an anomoly! You say, basically, "Stay low, but stay in prominent
locations"... but the 'gubment says, "popular locations are those being
targeted"!!! Given that revelation...it's a "dicey" place to be, or feel safe!!!
Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:24 am
Hi
What I am saying is don't stay in dingy dives - stay where there are lots of people but don't go flaunting Us or Australian ties by staying at the Marriot and hanging around the Embassy a lot just try to merge in as far as you can but don't isolate yourself either and become vulnerable. In other words just don't stand out in the crowd !
Regards
John P
What I am saying is don't stay in dingy dives - stay where there are lots of people but don't go flaunting Us or Australian ties by staying at the Marriot and hanging around the Embassy a lot just try to merge in as far as you can but don't isolate yourself either and become vulnerable. In other words just don't stand out in the crowd !
Regards
John P
Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:52 am
I have a friend (half French / half Dutch) down there in the Jakarta region - He's into aviation and knows some people, places and could be of advise.
PM if interested.
Martin
PM if interested.
Martin
Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:49 am
If you go on a warbird hunt down there, please bring home a couple Cavaliers for me, please.
Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:56 am
Randy
anytime - let's go together and lift a few of these beauties from their poles and pedestals.
Martin
anytime - let's go together and lift a few of these beauties from their poles and pedestals.
Martin
Re: Indonesia
Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:46 am
HarvardIV wrote:I'm not going to make a conclusion a from all of this data, except that based on the information that I've gathered that I will go.
so, please tell me one thing, if you have not made a conclusion based on all this data, how then have you managed to decide that from the information you have gathered you ought to go?
either make a decision based on the data ( another name for information ) or find a conclusion within the information you have but don't try and blow both hot and cold, it just confuses people about what you are intending to do.