Flightcrew helmets - strange question
Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:13 am
Hi guys,
I am currently writing an article about aviation & aircrew helmets and there is an area I wanted address.
Does anyone know if there have been any lawsuits brought against any of the major or minor manufacturers (Gentex, Alpha, MSA Gallet etc) in the last 10-15 years for injuries or wrongful death or anything along those lines.
Would appreciate anyones thoughts.
Thanks
I am currently writing an article about aviation & aircrew helmets and there is an area I wanted address.
Does anyone know if there have been any lawsuits brought against any of the major or minor manufacturers (Gentex, Alpha, MSA Gallet etc) in the last 10-15 years for injuries or wrongful death or anything along those lines.
Would appreciate anyones thoughts.
Thanks
Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:32 am
Stay away from here with those sort of questions...
sounds more like a law suit than a "book"..
sounds more like a law suit than a "book"..
Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:45 am
None that I'm aware of from the USAF side (Gentex helmets).
Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:58 am
Remember, these helmets aren't designed as as crash helmets ala motorcycle helmets, they are designed to house ear phones, oxygen mask, googles, and to keep you from banging your head against the canopy and injuring yourself.
Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:07 pm
The article is in reply to another that condemned the use of aircrew helmets in certain situations, I was looking for supporting evidence to counter some of the points brought up. In particular I was looking for something along the lines of "there have been NO legal cases brought forward against any of the major or minor manufacturers within the last 15 years".
It is a supportive article not a condemning one and most definately not a lawsuit.
It is a supportive article not a condemning one and most definately not a lawsuit.
"from the desk of Willey, Cheatem and Howe attorneys at
Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:03 pm
interesting question do you want to sue the plantif or the defendant? personally I would take on both cases, one with our satellite firm "Howe, Dewey, Cheatum attorneys at law" that way we win on both sides thank the gods that the public hasn't caught on the the biggest swindle of them all, LAWYERS"
Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:16 pm
It's Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe. I wouldn't be suprised if they don't end up sueing YOU for mispresenting their name. 
HELMETS
Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:08 pm
Dragonfly, I have never seen an article against helmets for aircrew, can you furnish a reference to that or give the details? I have, a few times, flown a fighter with a headset instead of a helmet and one advantage is better visibility to the sides and the rear. I prefer to use a helmet for safety. I have sene them save a pilot in a bad crash.
I don't have any knowledge of such a lawsuit, but I wouldn't be surprised.
I don't have any knowledge of such a lawsuit, but I wouldn't be surprised.
HELMETS
Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:08 pm
Dragonfly, I have never seen an article against helmets for aircrew, can you furnish a reference to that or give the details? I have, a few times, flown a fighter with a headset instead of a helmet and one advantage is better visibility to the sides and the rear. I prefer to use a helmet for safety. I have seen them save a pilot in a bad crash.
I don't have any knowledge of such a lawsuit, but I wouldn't be surprised.
I don't have any knowledge of such a lawsuit, but I wouldn't be surprised.
they don't have the guts...
Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:15 pm
Django wrote:It's Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe. I wouldn't be suprised if they don't end up sueing YOU for mispresenting their name.
cause id muyder them!
http://www.deskpicture.com/DPs/Miscella ... tooges.jpg
truth be known that is an actual name used in a three stooges short!
Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:22 am
b29flteng wrote:Remember, these helmets aren't designed as as crash helmets ala motorcycle helmets, they are designed to house ear phones, oxygen mask, googles, and to keep you from banging your head against the canopy and injuring yourself.
This is exactly what the Life Support guys told me when I went through USAF pilot training. My helmet was a thin plastic shell, with foam covered in thin leather. Used to see large boxes of broken helmet shells being dumped at the DRMO sales.
Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:34 am
Hi Bill,
Its an article in a small medical paper dealing with traumas associated with rapid deceleration. It details not just aviation accidents but also motor vehicle accidents.
The concern raised was mostly directed at people using helmets not appropriate to the type of situation, helmets that were to heavy cause neck and brain trauma on deceleration. This has obviously been addressed in some motor racing with the tethered helmets but isnt appropriate for aviation.
It was mentioned that helmets if used in sport aircraft, or in driving motor vehicles etc there may be more harm caused than good done as the majority of accident injuries were caused by deceleration trauma not head trauma.
It also mentioned some statistics (on lawsuits brought about by these accidents) that were unsubstantiated, just numbers and I was wanting to check how accurate they were.
There were certain elements of the article that made sense and some that didnt and I thought it warranted a brief reply.
Its an article in a small medical paper dealing with traumas associated with rapid deceleration. It details not just aviation accidents but also motor vehicle accidents.
The concern raised was mostly directed at people using helmets not appropriate to the type of situation, helmets that were to heavy cause neck and brain trauma on deceleration. This has obviously been addressed in some motor racing with the tethered helmets but isnt appropriate for aviation.
It was mentioned that helmets if used in sport aircraft, or in driving motor vehicles etc there may be more harm caused than good done as the majority of accident injuries were caused by deceleration trauma not head trauma.
It also mentioned some statistics (on lawsuits brought about by these accidents) that were unsubstantiated, just numbers and I was wanting to check how accurate they were.
There were certain elements of the article that made sense and some that didnt and I thought it warranted a brief reply.
Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:59 am
The current HGU-55 helmets that the USAF has been issuing for at least the last 10-15 years are fibreglass shells or kevlar shells over foam insides, much like any other "crash" helmet.
They offer a similar level of protection against impact that a bicycle helmet does, although the kevlar shell increases the impact protection somewhat.
They are a balance between being light and small, and protection. Because of the G forces fighters and trainers experience, having the impact protection (and associated weight) of a motorcycle or auto racing helmet is simply not practical.
I have always considered my helmet as providing protection against banging my head off the canopy glass while maneuvering (that happens a lot!), as well as protecting me from banging my skull on the ground should I have to jump out of the airplane in an emergency.
They offer a similar level of protection against impact that a bicycle helmet does, although the kevlar shell increases the impact protection somewhat.
They are a balance between being light and small, and protection. Because of the G forces fighters and trainers experience, having the impact protection (and associated weight) of a motorcycle or auto racing helmet is simply not practical.
I have always considered my helmet as providing protection against banging my head off the canopy glass while maneuvering (that happens a lot!), as well as protecting me from banging my skull on the ground should I have to jump out of the airplane in an emergency.
Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:57 am
dh90 -
Do you have a link to that article? It is a topic I am very curious about. I was in a severe crash (180+ mph impact) and was not wearing my helmet. The speakers in it were cutting in and out that day so I had left it in my car "just this one time".
The deceleration for me was so violent that both my contact lenses departed my eyes. I did have some facial/sinus fractures and severe cuts from the panel but fortunately escaped brain injury (well...some of my employees may dispute that!).
I have often wondered if I would have been better or worse off in that crash with the helmet, due to the extra force the weight of it would have added to my neck during deceleration. However, sinus surgery is not a fun experience either.
I've been around road racing most of my life so am very familiar with the HANS device how it has addresed the risk of basilar skull fractures in sudden deceleration situations. But, the HANS device obviously would not be practical for aviation.
All that said, I still wear a helmet when flying today.
Do you have a link to that article? It is a topic I am very curious about. I was in a severe crash (180+ mph impact) and was not wearing my helmet. The speakers in it were cutting in and out that day so I had left it in my car "just this one time".
The deceleration for me was so violent that both my contact lenses departed my eyes. I did have some facial/sinus fractures and severe cuts from the panel but fortunately escaped brain injury (well...some of my employees may dispute that!).
I have often wondered if I would have been better or worse off in that crash with the helmet, due to the extra force the weight of it would have added to my neck during deceleration. However, sinus surgery is not a fun experience either.
I've been around road racing most of my life so am very familiar with the HANS device how it has addresed the risk of basilar skull fractures in sudden deceleration situations. But, the HANS device obviously would not be practical for aviation.
All that said, I still wear a helmet when flying today.
Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:24 am
Just as an aside, I was just reading a memoir from a Loach(LOH) scout pilot who got shot down with flames in VN, and he mentioned the helmet catching fire- sounded like it was mainly the nylon straps on the SPH-4. Apparently his gunner (his "torque") saw him tear off and toss the burning helmet on the way down- and did the same, believing it the thing to do when one was crashing in flames! He did survive, but was put off by scout missions for a bit...
Robbie
Robbie