about the Pacific war

[Nathan]

Hi all,

As some of you know my main interest of WWII reflects the Pacific Theater and early WWII stuff. I am not sure why the Europe war seems to get more attension. To get back on track I just wanted to expess my interest in the Pacific war. I have been a big Pearl Harbor nut for years now. Naturally the air combat has been my main interest. Pilots like Mike Moore, Harry Brown, George Welch, John Thacker, etc. Another big interest for me is the Battle Of Midway particularly Midways aircraft that attacked the Japanese fleet...a wide variety of oddball aircraft saw action during that battle...one of the reasons why I am fasinated by that peice of history.

Also been very interested in the early Philippine war...many USAAC pilots were air born but many were flighting alone. I always thought that the 17 PS was the best squadron in the PHilippines due to the great Boyde Wagner who seemed to be an exceptional pilot and leader. Its sad to note that 17 P-40E's of the 17 PS were flying about Clark Field when it was attacked but yet no one noticed the destruction below. I've always thought had the 17 PS noticed the attack I picture all these P-40's diving down and mangling into the strafing zeros picking off zero after zero.

Finally I have always been fasinated with the Darwin/New Guinea actions. USAAC, RNZAF, RAAF fighting together mostly with P-40's against the Japanese. Its still is kinda depressing that people think the P-40 was only good with the AVG......always wish some more was mensioned about the P-40's in the Pacific casue IMHO thats where the P-40 seemed to shine.

Cheers,
Nathan

[RyanShort1]

*Yawns...*

Maybe because if those P-40s had been up against FW-190s they woulda gotten spanked... J/K

Now if you want to talk 45th FS P-51s... That's another story!

[Walrus 7]

Nathan,

As you might imagine, events in the PTO were very important to us Aussies, as was the P-40 because it was pretty much all we had! Our home-grown Boomerang wasn't up to scratch and the Brits were still reluctant to give us Spits, which we did eventually get. Realistically, the P-40 was it!

In Malaya in early 1942, the RAAF and the RAF took on the Japanese with Buffaloes, Vildebeest, Vengences, Hudsons, Blenheims and a smattering of Hurricanes that arrived too late to do any good. In Rabaul we had Wirraways and Hudsons ... but not for long. The AVG did kick in with P-40s out of Mingaladon in Rangoon in the Burma campaign, and along with the RAF and RAAF actually established air superiority for a while. A superhuman effort.

If you want to read some good stuff, the official RAAF history of WWII can be downloaded from the Australian War Memorial site http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/volume.asp?conflict=2

You'll find some great stories about the attempts to defend Malaya, Singapore, Burma, Ambon, Morotai, Rabaul and PNG. The PDFs are a bit large because the histories are very extensive. Worth a read if you want warts and all.

Walrus

[muddyboots]

And did pretty well with ALL of them, including Buffs, I believe. You Aussies learned to fight while we were still complaining about ow unfair it was the Japanese had such cool airplanes

[hang the expense]

Hey Ryan, these battles we are talking about happened when all we had was the P-40 in any numbers.Before the Aussies got spits they held the line at Milne Bay with the 49th flying,you guessed it P-40s.Good way to anger an Aussie is to slag off the Kittyhawk.Just how many kills did Clive Caldwell have in Kittyhawks anyone know?That hairdresser plane didnt come on the scene till much later.

[Dave Homewood]

As some of you know my main interest of WWII reflects the Pacific Theater and early WWII stuff. I am not sure why the Europe war seems to get more attension.

Hmm, an odd statement. Early World War II air battles were mostly in the European Theatre, apart from those in North Africa.

Finally I have always been fasinated with the Darwin/New Guinea actions. USAAC, RNZAF, RAAF fighting together mostly with P-40's against the Japanese.

The RNZAF never fought the Japanese in PNG itself. Our Air Force had bases that ranged across the Pacific from New Caledonia to Fiji with bases in between in places like Espiritu Santo, Cactus, Munda, Ondonga, Piva, Halavo Bay, Tonga, Green Island, Emirau, etc. It was more the Austrlalians and US forces covering the PNG area.

In Malaya in early 1942, the RAAF and the RAF took on the Japanese with Buffaloes, Vildebeest, Vengences, Hudsons, Blenheims and a smattering of Hurricanes that arrived too late to do any good.

The RNZAF was there too, with not only our own Buffalo and Hurricane squadron (No. 488 Squadron) and a couple of Singapore flying boats (No. 5 Sqn-to-be) but also most of the RAF units had RNZAF airmen attached as NZ had been supplying pilots there en masse to bolster defences. Most were just out of advanced training! The RNZAF's and entire British Empire's top Pacific ace, Geoff Fisken, was there and shot down his first few kills there.

[RyanShort1]

Hey Ryan, these battles we are talking about happened when all we had was the P-40 in any numbers.Before the Aussies got spits they held the line at Milne Bay with the 49th flying,you guessed it P-40s.Good way to anger an Aussie is to slag off the Kittyhawk.Just how many kills did Clive Caldwell have in Kittyhawks anyone know?That hairdresser plane didnt come on the scene till much later.

Oh, I know... I was just funnin.

[gemmer]

Hi all,

As some of you know my main interest of WWII reflects the Pacific Theater and early WWII stuff. I am not sure why the Europe war seems to get more attension. To get back on track I just wanted to expess my interest in the Pacific war. I have been a big Pearl Harbor nut for years now. Naturally the air combat has been my main interest. Pilots like Mike Moore, Harry Brown, George Welch, John Thacker, etc. Another big interest for me is the Battle Of Midway particularly Midways aircraft that attacked the Japanese fleet...a wide variety of oddball aircraft saw action during that battle...one of the reasons why I am fasinated by that peice of history.

Also been very interested in the early Philippine war...many USAAC pilots were air born but many were flighting alone. I always thought that the 17 PS was the best squadron in the PHilippines due to the great Boyde Wagner who seemed to be an exceptional pilot and leader. Its sad to note that 17 P-40E's of the 17 PS were flying about Clark Field when it was attacked but yet no one noticed the destruction below. I've always thought had the 17 PS noticed the attack I picture all these P-40's diving down and mangling into the strafing zeros picking off zero after zero.

Finally I have always been fasinated with the Darwin/New Guinea actions. USAAC, RNZAF, RAAF fighting together mostly with P-40's against the Japanese. Its still is kinda depressing that people think the P-40 was only good with the AVG......always wish some more was mensioned about the P-40's in the Pacific casue IMHO thats where the P-40 seemed to shine.

Cheers,
Nathan

The 17th Pursuit was flying patrol over Manila Bay when Clark was attacked. The sad truth is that there was no assigned air cover over Clark when the attack came.

Duane

[Nathan]

Hmm, an odd statement. Early World War II air battles were mostly in the European Theatre, apart from those in North Africa.

Quote:

Dave,

I ment early U.S. combat engagments.

Also anyone remember a blue painted B-17 operating out of Guadalcanal? If I remember correct a Japanese airplane ran into the bomb bay of the plane killing everyone on board!

[Dave Homewood]

Dave,

I ment early U.S. combat engagments.

Oh, well then you meant mid-WWII, not early.

[David_Aiken]

Early war to an American is not early war to the Commonwealth soldiers and sailors fighting alongside the British...or the American Eagle Squadron... Yet the average US person is forgetful about when the war started for which we were called to help finish. Sorry, y'all.

[Dave Homewood]

Forgetful or ignorant?

World War Two began on the 3rd of September 1939 and by mid-1940 actually involved most of the world (hence it's name!). Just because a few countries like the USA and Russia came into it two years down the track does not make 1941 the beginning of the war.

[Forgotten Field]

Nathan,
Good on you for taking the interest. The other posts have suitably informed you about when the war really began to complete your education so now you can get back to how the US really won the war by underwriting the UK and Commonwealth... (takes cover)

Just kidding! C'mon, give him a break. How many people that age do you actually have the chance to mentor- how many his age actually care?

[Dave Homewood]

Sorry but I have no idea how old Nathan is. I fully encourage anyone who takes an interest in the history of the Second World War, and if he is indeed a youngster as you suggest Forgotten Field, then that's great.

I was not trying to create an issue here, just point out a fact that for some reason seems to often be overlooked by Americans.

Nathan may be interested to learn that there was war in the Pacific long before Pearl Harbor, Singapore and Malaya were attacked. The Germans had naval raider ships roaming New Zealand's coast, as well as Australian and other waters sinking shipping, laying mines capturing prisoners. They killed numerous sailors and passengers in these attacks and masses of war materil was lost including a shipload of gold on the SS Niagara.

Though the RNZAF's major role from 1939-41 was training and supplying airmen for the war in Europe, we had operational squadrons that patrolled our waters who tried to stop the raiders. None were ever caught unfortunately. So the Pacific was not exactly at peace during the first two years of the war.

Nathan, I didn't mean to cause offence, just making corrections.
Cheers,
Dave

Last edited by Dave Homewood on Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[airnutz]

Forgetful or ignorant?

Neither forgetful, nor ignorant...if you keep Nathans statement within the context of the US official entry into the fray.

If you wanna get technical, the war between the US and Japan was inevitable when Yankee traders/bankers/gub'mint sent Perry to persuade the Japanese to abandon several hundred
years of isolationism and join the world trade..sound familiar?

Sharpen the stick a bit more, and you'll find other world powers and the church knocking earlier..