The future for jet warbirds?
Fri May 23, 2008 2:11 pm
yep...and Virgin Air lines flew a passenger jet...
Fri May 23, 2008 2:26 pm
on it recently as well....congealing is the biggest problem but there are relatively simple solutions to solve this problem.
Fri May 23, 2008 3:59 pm
Some comments and questions.
First off, I don't know if most people realize this, but just about any kind of jet engine will run on just about any kind of jet fuel/kerosene/bio-whatever mix/synthetic fuel. The problem is that it all comes at a price - reduced engine life. The fact that the engine runs on that kind of fuel is not at all surprising. What will be interesting is whether the engine can last as many or nearly as many hours between overhaul/servicing, and whether the engine can produce thrust reliably without hiccups. That will only come with extensive testing.
Second, does anybody know how expensive that biojet fuel is expected to be? Will it be nearly as expensive as normal jet fuel? If all it is doing is helping the environment, then it will have a very minimal impact on warbird jet operations.
Third, IF this new fuel is drastically cheaper than fossil jet fuel, then it could have a HUGE impact on the jet warbird market. Right now, most jets are very inexpensive and easy to obtain because nobody wants them due to the high operating costs, mostly because of the cost of gas. Up until a few years ago, and probably now even, you could get a flyable MiG for under $ 50,000. If that new biofuel gets FAA approved and it comes into widespread use with broad availability, I could see the whole jet market turnaround. I could see Mig-15's, '17's, etc. drastically increasing in value with many more people flying them.
First off, I don't know if most people realize this, but just about any kind of jet engine will run on just about any kind of jet fuel/kerosene/bio-whatever mix/synthetic fuel. The problem is that it all comes at a price - reduced engine life. The fact that the engine runs on that kind of fuel is not at all surprising. What will be interesting is whether the engine can last as many or nearly as many hours between overhaul/servicing, and whether the engine can produce thrust reliably without hiccups. That will only come with extensive testing.
Second, does anybody know how expensive that biojet fuel is expected to be? Will it be nearly as expensive as normal jet fuel? If all it is doing is helping the environment, then it will have a very minimal impact on warbird jet operations.
Third, IF this new fuel is drastically cheaper than fossil jet fuel, then it could have a HUGE impact on the jet warbird market. Right now, most jets are very inexpensive and easy to obtain because nobody wants them due to the high operating costs, mostly because of the cost of gas. Up until a few years ago, and probably now even, you could get a flyable MiG for under $ 50,000. If that new biofuel gets FAA approved and it comes into widespread use with broad availability, I could see the whole jet market turnaround. I could see Mig-15's, '17's, etc. drastically increasing in value with many more people flying them.
Fri May 23, 2008 4:07 pm
This may actually show more promise.
http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/AudioPodcast_SwiftEnterprises_SyntheticFuel_JohnZiulkowski_197843-1.html
http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/AudioPodcast_SwiftEnterprises_SyntheticFuel_JohnZiulkowski_197843-1.html
Fri May 23, 2008 4:30 pm
South African Airways jets have been flying (out of SA) on a biofuel blend with Jet A for some time with no issues.
The synthetic jet fuels are a break even proposition at around $60-$70 barrel oil. They would be considered a profitable investment at $100 oil. The issue is that there must be an enormous injection of capital in the infrastructure needed to produce synthetic fuels in order for them to become widely available.
At this point most people are waiting to see if $130+ oil is simply due to speculation and momentum investing. If we see sustained oil prices over $100 I think we will see the biofuels market develop. However, those with the barrels of biofuel are not going to give away margin - they are going to price it against oil-derived fuels. So, while I doubt I'll ever see myself pumping 50 cent a gallon fuel into my Mig-15, $3 a gallon juice will probably be a reality again at some point.
The big wild card is the boys in DC...if they hyper-subsidize the synthetic fuels industry, or even just open up federal lands to coal mining, we may very well see a sharper (but likely temporary) drop in fuel prices.
The synthetic jet fuels are a break even proposition at around $60-$70 barrel oil. They would be considered a profitable investment at $100 oil. The issue is that there must be an enormous injection of capital in the infrastructure needed to produce synthetic fuels in order for them to become widely available.
At this point most people are waiting to see if $130+ oil is simply due to speculation and momentum investing. If we see sustained oil prices over $100 I think we will see the biofuels market develop. However, those with the barrels of biofuel are not going to give away margin - they are going to price it against oil-derived fuels. So, while I doubt I'll ever see myself pumping 50 cent a gallon fuel into my Mig-15, $3 a gallon juice will probably be a reality again at some point.
The big wild card is the boys in DC...if they hyper-subsidize the synthetic fuels industry, or even just open up federal lands to coal mining, we may very well see a sharper (but likely temporary) drop in fuel prices.
Fri May 23, 2008 4:45 pm
What an airshow draw, a jet warbird that smells like french fries! 
Fri May 23, 2008 10:40 pm
oscardeuce wrote:What an airshow draw, a jet warbird that smells like french fries!
Wouldn't that be the "subliminal" way to send the spectators to visit the concession stands? : )
Saludos,
Tulio
Sat May 24, 2008 12:41 am
oscardeuce wrote:What an airshow draw, a jet warbird that smells like french fries!
That would be a liberal jet! The conservative jet would smell like freedom fries.
Sorry, couldn't resist a little policital humor!
