This is the place where the majority of the warbird (aircraft that have survived military service) discussions will take place. Specialized forums may be added in the new future
Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:07 pm
So this is a little late in coming,
but an amazing war hero passed away last month. His name was Franz Stigler, and he was the man who, upon coming across a heavily damaged B-17, would not shoot it down, but rather, ended up escorting it as far as possilbe towards allied territory before himself returning to base. Many of you have probably seen a few different paintings done of this encounter; well, Franz Stigler was the pilot of the ME-109.
Many "famous" WWII veterans were made famous by their heroics of shooting down planes, and eliminating the enemy, but I think Franz is a special kind of hero, who in my mind became famous for doing the opposite of what he was instructed to do in his airforce training; not shoot down an enemy plane. I imagine that there were quite a few other instances of this kind of respect for fellow man, but Franz's story sticks out because it reminds us that even in times of war, the people who we are fighting have hearts too.
Franz, thank you for being a gentleman, a hero, and for putting humanity ahead of orders.
I am very glad to say that a few years back I had the pleasure of meeting and shaking the hand of Franz Stigler at a Canadian Museum of Flight dinner meeting in Langley, BC.
-David M.
Ward Wide Web wrote:"Charlie Brown was a B-17 Flying Fortress pilot with the 379th Bomber Group at Kimberton, England. His B-17, called "Ye Olde Pub" had been shot numerous times on a run to bomb a factory in Bremen, Germany, and was heavily damaged.
When Luftwaffe pilot Franz Stigler saw Ye Olde Pub, he could not believe his eyes. He said he had "never seen a plane in such a bad shape." The tail and rear sections were severely damaged and the tail gunner was wounded. The nose was smashed and the plane was covered in holes.
Brown said his "heart sank" when he realized he was flying over a Luftwaffe fighter base as he struggled to maintain control of his plane. When Brown looked out the cockpit window, he saw a Messerschmidtt 109 flying alongside. Lt. Brown refused to crash land or bail out and leave his three injured crewmembers. He valiantly tried to make Ye Olde Pub climb on its remaining one engine.
Despite having ammunition, Franz Stigler not only did not shoot down Ye Olde Pub, but actually escorted the aircraft for a time towards England.
He then saluted Charlie Brown and turned back towards his base.
Lt. Brown flew Ye Olde Pub back to England, landed safely, and every man aboard survived.
In 1989, Charlie Brown placed numerous ads in hopes of finding his angel of mercy. He finally did, in a newsletter for former Luftwaffe pilots. After questioning Stigler, Brown knew for certain that this was the man who had spared him. Turns out, Stigler had immigrated to Canada and was living in Vancouver.
"In all these years," said Sigler, "I wondered about the B-17. Did she make it?"
She did, but barely.
Why did Stigler not shoot down the enemy?
"I did not have the heart to finish off those brave men. I flew beside them for a long time. They were trying desperately to get home and I was going to let them do it. I could not have shot at them. It would have been the same as shooting at a man in a parachute."
Franz Stigler died March 22, 2008."
Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:23 pm
Franz used to own an Me-108 and back in the day he and a certain local Mustang owner used to the occasional good guy-bad guy routine. RIP Franz.
Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:27 pm
the man knew what REAL heroism was.
Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:52 pm
I first met Franz when I was about 12 and we visited him in Surrey a few times. I was lucky enough to get a ride with him in the ME-108. I all fairness though his B-17/109 encounter is suspect and he was involved in WWII's only documented instance of faking combat claims which led in part to another pilot's suicide
Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:06 pm
Jack Cook wrote:In all fairness though his B-17/109 encounter is suspect and he was involved in WWII's only documented instance of faking combat claims which led to another pilot suicide

All right Paul Harvey - let's hear the
rest of the story! What's this about the fake claims and suicide? Now you've got my curiosity up...
Zack
Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:10 pm
Jack Cook wrote:I first met Franz when I was about 12 and we visited him in Surrey a few times. I was lucky enough to get a ride with him in the ME-108. I all fairness though his B-17/109 encounter is suspect and he was involved in WWII's only documented instance of faking combat claims which led in part to another pilot's suicide

Have you got a link to that story anywhere?
Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:16 pm
Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
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This incident has come up before. The Luftwaffe pilot was Oberleutnant Franz Stigler of JG 27, a family friend since he flew with my uncle in Africa in 1942. I have had dinner with Franz and Charlie Brown in the past, and there is some controversy in certain circles as to the veracity of this whole story. Keep in mind that Stigler was a member of the schwarm which included Erwin Sawallisch and which was accused of faking claims in Africa. I believe this led to the unexplained death of Sawallisch. Also, considering that shooting down viermots at this stage of the war was considered a duty and honor in light of the death toll of German civilians, it doesn't seem likely that a Jagdwaffe pilot would willingly let his victim go, especially since consequences for doing so could be negative. I'm not saying that chivalrous acts did not occur, but the participants in this alleged incident have gotten alot of "mileage" out of it.
Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:21 pm
Schwarm of Liars
The most notable example of the Luftwaffe ace culture’s impact in North Africa was the falsification of victory claims by a small group of 4./J.G. 27 pilots in mid-1942. Few Axis aerial victories were claimed in August, with the exception of these 4./J.G. 27 pilots, who claimed numerous victories almost daily. Other J.G. 27 pilots had their suspicions, and these were confirmed on 16 August when a 2./J.G. 27 pilot came across five 4./J.G. 27 pilots shooting off their ammunition in the desert in a mock combat. Slipping away unnoticed, the 2./J.G. 27 pilot landed at base. When the 4./J.G. 27 pilots returned, they claimed twelve victories between them. Some 58 false victory claims were submitted between 20 June and 12 October 1942, along with others that were suspicious. Most of these occurred in August. As if to confirm their guilt, on the day after they were discovered, one member of the Staffel committed suicide in his Bf 109.[1] This series of events was never reported to the Luftwaffe high command, and one of these pilots later received the Ritterkreuz (Knight’s Cross). This was the only known case of Axis falsification of victory claims in North Africa in 1942, but it is a stark example of how much the ace culture affected German fighter pilots in North Africa.
[1] Luftwaffe Victory Claims Microfilm Material;
In first days of August 1942 four pilots from the same Schwarm of 4./JG 27 begun to claim big number of victories. Very soon it was called “Experten-Schwarm”. Pilots, who had their successes very rarely earlier, suddenly started to win air combats every day and their accounts started to grow very fast. And so it was :
3 August: 2; Bendert 1, Sawallisch 1,
4 August: 4; Bendert 2, Sawallisch 2,
5 August: 1; Bendert 1,
6 August: 3; Bendert 2, Stigler 1,
7 August: 9; Bendert 3, Sawallisch 2, Stigler 2, Vögl 2,
10 August: 8; Bendert 2, Sawallisch 2, Stigler 2, Vögl 2,
11 August: 5; Sawallisch 2, Vögl 2, Stiegler 1,
12 August: 12; Bendert 5 !, Sawallisch 4, Stigler 3,
14 August: 2; Sawallisch 2.
Some other, very experienced pilots like Stahlschmidt, Sinner, Börngen – knew, that air combat wasn’t a play and getting so much successes by unexperienced pilots was very suspected.
The pressure in JG 27 was growing till 16 August.
On that day Lt. Hans-Arnold Stahlschmidt from 2./JG 27 with his wingman started from Fuka and shot down 2 P-40 on 8.15 and 8.25 hours. After landing in the base he came to kommodore JG 27, Maj. Edu Neumann, claimed 2 victories and reported that during his second fight saw 5 Bf 109 shooting into sand!
There was only Expereten-Schwarm in the air in that time.
When these pilots landed, they claimed 12 victories ! (Bendert 3, Sawallisch 3, Vögl 3, Stigler 2, Just 1).
Pilots denied to Stahlschmidt’s report, confirming victories to each other.
Maj. Neumann decided not to inform High Command, because he didn’t want Jagdgeschwader to lose good opinion. All their victories were cancelled, but after official confirmation by OKL in Berlin they have stayed on their accounts. Experten-Schwarm was unformed and the pilots were moved to other staffels. The new Rommel’s offensive was to come and every pilot was valuable.
It supposed to be end of the conflict, but final came very soon. On 19 August Ofw. Erwin Sawallisch started in his Bf 109 after technical check-up, but didn’t come back. It is unknown, if he killed himself or if it was a revenge of angry mechanics, whose hard work was wasted.
His body was found the next day on the beach of Mediterranean Sea.
Ten days later, on 29 August, Uffz. Just was taken PoW. His account has stayed on 1.
The rest survived the war, everybody in officer’s ranks.
Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:02 pm
after my ride in C-GRIT..................