[PICS] Museo della Scienza e della tecnologia, Milan

[k5083]

Italy's National Museum of Science and Technology in Milan houses a small but eclectic airplane collection. I visited there in 1999 while vacationing in Italy. It was sort of a consolation prize because Italy's wonderful Air Force Museum near Rome, which I had intended to visit, was closed that summer for pre-millennium renovations. I don't think that pics from the Milan museum have been posted here before, and I happened to be scanning some old negs, so here are my 1999 pics.



The airplane collection starts in the outdoor courtyard where a few military jets are displayed (although some may since have been moved inside). Here is the Fiat G-91R.



F-84.



Fiat-built F-86K.



In an annex building with other artifacts such as the locomotive you can see in the background is this T-6.



In the main indoor gallery, again arrayed with other transportation artifacts, is the bulk of the airplane collection. This is a Macchi-built Nieuport 10.



This would appear to be some significant German WWI artifact, part of a large aircraft but I was not able to figure out what type.



The Piero Magni PM3/4 "Vale" was a beautiful 1930s sport monoplane.



The rather less beautiful but interesting Breda Ba.15.



I-CIER is a preserved Cierva C-30 autogiro.



From the WWII era, the Macchi MC.205V Veltro. This is a gorgeous aircraft, and having seen the MC.200 at Dayton and the MC.202 in DC, it really completes the picture of WWII Macchi evolution. Two 205s exist, this one and another in Italy's AF Museum. The museum asserts that this is the machine that was briefly airworthy in the 1980s until a prang while taxiing prompted its retirement, although I have seen some sources claiming that this is the other machine.



I'll indulge in a second photo of the Veltro.



Aw, okay, and a third.



Also on display is part of an infamous Caproni-Campini CC2, a type that with some legitimacy can claim to be the second jet aircraft ever flown after the Heinkel 178. Actually it was a piston-[under]powered ducted fan inspired, I am tempted to think, by a piece of penne pasta, but with an afterburner that provided some reaction thrust. This is actually a static test fuselage, not part of a complete airplane. A complete CC2 is nicely preserved at the Italian AF Museum.



The SAI Ambrosini S-7 was a highly regarded postwar trainer.



Finally, bringing us almost up to the jets displayed outside, this ex-Italian AF Vampire FB.52 is mounted in a very low flying position.

Hope you enjoyed these. The museum is well worth a visit when you're in Milan, and it also has some outstanding Leonardo da Vinci displays.

August

[JDK]

Mmm. I can almost smell the coffees. Although at the moment, you can mostly smell the rubbish, I understand. Great pics

This would appear to be some significant German WWI artifact, part of a large aircraft but I was not able to figure out what type.

Poor effort, August. Clearly the fuselage (armoured fuselage gondola, and the longerons for the rear fuselage which were covered in sheet duralamin) of a Junkers J-4 armoured sesquiplane. There's a more complete example in the Canadian Aviation Museum. (OK, I was looking at the Canadian example recently, and I had to look it up as well.)

[Steve Nelson]

Here are some pics I shot of the Ottawa example last summer. This armored monstrosity only had a 250 HP engine..it's a wonder it even got off the ground. The tour guide said the museum is trying to decide whether to restore the aircraft or preserve it as-is. Since it's 100% original, I say leave it alone.

SN

[gary1954]

Fraid I agree with you , this example should be put back together and displayed "As Is"...man what a find!!

[Steve Nelson]

Getting the thread back on track, that Veltro is sweeeeeet. I once read that they flight tested one against a P-51, and it more than held its own. It'd be great to see a 202 or 205 on the airshow circuit!

SN

[Swiss Mustangs]

here's the Italian AF Museum Veltro seen in 1981



Martin

[JDK]

From the WWII era, the Macchi MC.205V Veltro. This is a gorgeous aircraft, and having seen the MC.200 at Dayton and the MC.202 in DC, it really completes the picture of WWII Macchi evolution. Two 205s exist, this one and another in Italy's AF Museum. The museum asserts that this is the machine that was briefly airworthy in the 1980s until a prang while taxiing prompted its retirement, although I have seen some sources claiming that this is the other machine.

Lovely stuff.

From the Warbird Directory, 4th Edn.

MACCHI MC.202 FOLGORE
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Wright Field OH: flight trials 43/44
(to USAAF as FE-498/T2-498) 45/46
Smithsonian Institute: stored Park Ridge IL 8.46
NASM Store, Silver Hill MD: displ. as "FE-498" 71/72
NASM, Washington DC 74/02
(displ. as "MM9476/90-4")
_________________________________________________
- • MC.202 MM9546 Museo Storico dell'Aeronautica Militaire
Italiana, Vigna di Valle AB 73/01
MC205V repl (conv. to MC205V config .50, displ. as MC.205V
Veltro "MM9345", later "MM9546/97-2")
_________________________________________________
- • MC.202 MM9667 Museo Storico dell'Aeronautica Militaire
Italiana, Vigna di Valle AB 73/01
(static rest. ex derelict airframe,
displ. as "MM7844/91-3", later "9667/73-7")
_________________________________________________

MACCHI MC.205V VELTRO
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
6665 • MC.205V MM91818 Malignani Technical Institute, Udine 60/79
rest. to fly Venegono by Aermacchi .79/80
I-MCVE Soc. Aeronautica Macchi, Venegono 12.80/87
(ff Venegono 9.12.80, flew as "MM92214"
later "MM9327/81-5")
dam. taxy accident, Venegono 23.7.86
(rebuilt by Aermacchi for static displ. 82/87)
National Museum of Science & Technology,
Milan, Italy: displ. as "MM92215" .87/02
_______________________________________
- • MC.205V MM92166 (to Egyptian AF as 1243)
National Museum of Science & Technology,
Milan, Italy 77/82
Aeronautica Macchi, Venegono .82/96
(rest. Venegono using parts of MM91818,
ff .90, then static display only)
Aermacchi Historical Centre, Venegono 90/98
National Museum of Science & Technology,
Milan, Italy 01/02
(displ. as "MM9327/81-5")

[k5083]

James, I looked at those entries. They still leave some ambiguity! I do understand that the Italian AF restored 91818 to fly, pranged it, then grabbed 92166 along with the undamaged parts of 91818 to restore that to fly, and now we are left with two hybrid airframes, one with the airworthy parts of 91818/92166 and one with the second-best parts. Both airframes are said to have been marked as MM9327/81-5, the markings in my photos, and both aircraft are listed as being in the Milan museum as of 2002, which IIRC is the press date of that edition. Presumably my photos show the first to fly, originally 91818 and then the composite built of the dregs after 92166 was made airworthy, that being the only one listed as being in Milan by 1999. I doubt very much that both were in Milan in 2002, as suggested by the directory, at least not much longer than was necessary to do a swap, if there was one. The other 205, but I don't know which, is now displayed at Vigna di Valle with post-Fascist roundels and codes 97-2.

August

[JDK]

You spotted why I made no comment!

[Pat]

August-
Are there any other noteworthy aviation museums in Italy besides those in Milan and near Rome? We make take a family vacation there this summer, and I'd like to work those into the trip...

-Pat

[GIJOE290]

Neat photo's! Thanks for sharing them.

[k5083]

Pat, the one other museum that would be well worth a visit, if you can swing it, is the Caproni Museum in Trento. It displays the Caproni family collection and includes some amazing items, most notably an Ansaldo SVA.5, the last surviving (partial) Fokker D.VIII "flying razor", and a Savoia Marchetti S.M.79. I did not get to see it, as it is a bit off the beaten track, although in a beautiful area at the foot of the Alps. It will be on my list for a future visit, yet another reason to return to Italy besides Vigna di Valle and, as James alluded, the incredible coffee and I might add bread, cheese, olives, wine, and hams.

August

[Randy Haskin]

Holy small world!

I am in Italy this week, and just went to the museum two days ago!

My wife went home with the photos I took, so I can't post the current photos until I get home next week.

Overall things have not changed much.

I have half of a day on Thursday and Friday if there are any WIXers in northern Italy that want to get together and visit a museum somewhere.

[tom d. friedman]

what??? no macchi castoldi ???the sexyist seaplane in existence??

[Mike]

what??? no macchi castoldi ???the sexyist seaplane in existence??

If you mean the sole surviving MC-72, it's in the Italian AF Museum at Vigne di Valle, just outside Rome.

Gotta love those contra-rotating propellers connected to the twin-coupled V-12s, and the smooth-faired radiators on the floats!