CAF Aircraft Sponsorship question
Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:18 pm
Greetings, a beautiful day in Santa Barbara today, very hot, I'm sitting in my office working a bit, watching The Masters and playing on this crazy website. I have a few questions for you CAF guys. I guess I could research it, but I'm lazy today.
Of all the CAF aircraft in the various wings, is there a simple way to explain how funds are divided up between aircraft? I'm not quite understanding how each wing or aircraft collect funds, donations etc. I believe each wing collects donations strickly toward that wings aircraft, is this true? or does a portion of a particular wings donations go to CAF headquarters as well? Also are there individual owners that do not donate their aircraft to the CAF, but allow the CAF to fly it as long as they maintain it. Is there one location that all donations, membership fees, etc are collected and then those funds are portioned out to the various wings in amounts that reflect individual wing needs and aircraft in those wings inventory? I believe I have read on various CAF websites that what that wing collects in funds by donation, sponsorship, etc. stays with that wing.
Mark the dumb guy on a beautiful day ....
Of all the CAF aircraft in the various wings, is there a simple way to explain how funds are divided up between aircraft? I'm not quite understanding how each wing or aircraft collect funds, donations etc. I believe each wing collects donations strickly toward that wings aircraft, is this true? or does a portion of a particular wings donations go to CAF headquarters as well? Also are there individual owners that do not donate their aircraft to the CAF, but allow the CAF to fly it as long as they maintain it. Is there one location that all donations, membership fees, etc are collected and then those funds are portioned out to the various wings in amounts that reflect individual wing needs and aircraft in those wings inventory? I believe I have read on various CAF websites that what that wing collects in funds by donation, sponsorship, etc. stays with that wing.
Mark the dumb guy on a beautiful day ....
Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:05 pm
Next you'll be wanting all the secrets of the Freemasons! 
Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:22 pm
Since nobody else wants to jump into the fire I guess I will.
First off we will touch on membership dues, the $200 membership fee goes straight to HQ and then you will normally have a dues to pay to join a squadron/wing which that money will stay at the squadron/ wing level.
Aircraft donations: Generally speaking when someone makes a donation to a particular aircraft that money will go into the Aircrafts MCRP account which is maintained by HQ and is an account set up to cover maintenance issues on that aircraft.
General donations will go to wherever you would like it to go to. You can either donate directly to HQ or you can donate directly to squadron/ wing.
Something else to keep in mind is that each individual wing/ squadron must pay an annual fee to HQ ($1600) just to be a part of the CAF and then each aircraft must also pay an annual fee to HQ (this varies on the status of the aircraft and its type). For instance with the ODS and our two aircraft our Annual bill this year was for $4100, which broke down as $1600 for the squadron, $2000 for the C-60 and $500 for the OY-1. Once we get the OY-1 and the C-60 back in the air our Annual bill will look more like $9,800 (which is $1600 Squadron, $7,200 C-60 and $1,000 for the OY-1). Hopefully people can better realize why we are always asking for donations.
Yes, I have heard of individuals leasing their aircraft to the CAF but I do not know what aircraft have done that in the past.
Hopefully these answers some of your questions, if you have anymore I will try and answer them to the best of my abilities.
First off we will touch on membership dues, the $200 membership fee goes straight to HQ and then you will normally have a dues to pay to join a squadron/wing which that money will stay at the squadron/ wing level.
Aircraft donations: Generally speaking when someone makes a donation to a particular aircraft that money will go into the Aircrafts MCRP account which is maintained by HQ and is an account set up to cover maintenance issues on that aircraft.
General donations will go to wherever you would like it to go to. You can either donate directly to HQ or you can donate directly to squadron/ wing.
Something else to keep in mind is that each individual wing/ squadron must pay an annual fee to HQ ($1600) just to be a part of the CAF and then each aircraft must also pay an annual fee to HQ (this varies on the status of the aircraft and its type). For instance with the ODS and our two aircraft our Annual bill this year was for $4100, which broke down as $1600 for the squadron, $2000 for the C-60 and $500 for the OY-1. Once we get the OY-1 and the C-60 back in the air our Annual bill will look more like $9,800 (which is $1600 Squadron, $7,200 C-60 and $1,000 for the OY-1). Hopefully people can better realize why we are always asking for donations.
Yes, I have heard of individuals leasing their aircraft to the CAF but I do not know what aircraft have done that in the past.
Hopefully these answers some of your questions, if you have anymore I will try and answer them to the best of my abilities.
Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:25 pm
Nope, I already have all that .... and JFK's assassin & Hoffa's gravesite too .... Nope I want some REAL stuff ... Oh BTW ... have you been to Adolf's summer home in Argentia? ... great tourist attraction down there ...
Thanks Craig, yes these questions were on my mind. I should probably PM this to you, but I have a very deep interest in your F6F Hellcat for obvious reasons. But I'm not sure how (I personally) want to proceed. I have had a few (very outside) offers to get involved with some privately owned P-51's. I'm not a big, rich guy, but I do fine, and got some petty PM's back stating I was all hot air. Well I own my father's Globe Swift that I really have not much interest in owning much longer. The Swift, at best, is worth $50.000. Well, I fly once or twice a month, not much at all, I would feel more satisfation in possibly a sponsorship. OK now before I get out of hand and open my mouth too wide. I have a tremendous amount of thinking and decisions to make. It'll take time, I'm in no hurry and I certainly do not want to lead anyone on here. I'm just talking out loud, and probably not a good idea on an open forum.
But darn it!!!! .... I love that Hellcat. And it's close to me. We'll see what happens. Feel free to PM me anytime ....
Mark the dreamer
Thanks Craig, yes these questions were on my mind. I should probably PM this to you, but I have a very deep interest in your F6F Hellcat for obvious reasons. But I'm not sure how (I personally) want to proceed. I have had a few (very outside) offers to get involved with some privately owned P-51's. I'm not a big, rich guy, but I do fine, and got some petty PM's back stating I was all hot air. Well I own my father's Globe Swift that I really have not much interest in owning much longer. The Swift, at best, is worth $50.000. Well, I fly once or twice a month, not much at all, I would feel more satisfation in possibly a sponsorship. OK now before I get out of hand and open my mouth too wide. I have a tremendous amount of thinking and decisions to make. It'll take time, I'm in no hurry and I certainly do not want to lead anyone on here. I'm just talking out loud, and probably not a good idea on an open forum.
But darn it!!!! .... I love that Hellcat. And it's close to me. We'll see what happens. Feel free to PM me anytime ....
Mark the dreamer
Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:59 pm
Hellcat:
Duck has given you some info...I'll attempt to add more. Interesting that your dad flew Hellcats and you own a Swift. My dad flew Hellcats and I own a Swift: sorta coincidental. Anyway, about the CAF and the sponsorship business.
The CAF is essentially a franchise...units "buy" a franchise to be part of the CAF, units are formed, they either buy and airplane (and donate it to the CAF) or request assignment of a CAF airplane, and then the unit is responsible for all the maintenance and other costs of operating the airplane. Units can get sponsors for assigned airplanes, or they can sponsor the airplane as a unit....some airplanes are entirely "sponsored" by a group of individuals (a sponsor group) or by units. The cost of operating a WW II airplane can become significant: it is essentially all handled by the group/unit to which it is assigned. I don't want to get into the "What does CAF HQ do for me/us" business as that would go forever....Short answer is all of the indirect management expenses for a multi-national corporation with 9000 members worldwide that operates 140+ airplanes are considerable and that is what Duck is talking about with his comments about the yearly "fee" the Old Dominion Squadron pays to HQ.
I think you are more interested in becoming a sponsor of the CAF Hellcat which is based at Camarillo....this action being in some way a tribute to your dad. I think this would be a fitting thing to do, as I intend to do the same thing for my dad when the time comes. HOWEVER, do not expect that your sponsorship "entitles" you to anything more than knowing that the airplane will continue to fly. The CAF Hellcat is assigned to the Southern California Wing of the CAF, and they are responsible (thru their staff) for its operation. If you ponied up significant dollars (six figures would be nice) such that the airplane would have some kind of endowment, then you could find yourself becoming a very popular person within the SoCal Wing and the CAF!
What used to be the case was a guy could plunk down 10K and become a Flying Sponsor....which meant he could fly the airplane if he had all the requisite time, qualifications, etc, AND he was then responsible for his share of the yearly cost of operation. That cost of operation has gotten way out of hand, and so more high profile airplanes are becoming unit sponsored...
Back in the way distant past the line between a CAF-owned airplane and an individual-owned airplane operated by the CAF was sometimes really blurry, which has led to lots of misunderstandings and wrong information. Today, with only one exception I can think of, the CAF doesn't "operate" any non-CAF airplanes.
Hope this helps....and I hope you decide to give some money to the CAF Hellcat. It is a beautiful airplane and your money would go to "keep 'em flying." You ought to join the CAF and wander down to Camarillo and get involved: hands on experience with the airplanes is really what it's all about.
Old Shep
Duck has given you some info...I'll attempt to add more. Interesting that your dad flew Hellcats and you own a Swift. My dad flew Hellcats and I own a Swift: sorta coincidental. Anyway, about the CAF and the sponsorship business.
The CAF is essentially a franchise...units "buy" a franchise to be part of the CAF, units are formed, they either buy and airplane (and donate it to the CAF) or request assignment of a CAF airplane, and then the unit is responsible for all the maintenance and other costs of operating the airplane. Units can get sponsors for assigned airplanes, or they can sponsor the airplane as a unit....some airplanes are entirely "sponsored" by a group of individuals (a sponsor group) or by units. The cost of operating a WW II airplane can become significant: it is essentially all handled by the group/unit to which it is assigned. I don't want to get into the "What does CAF HQ do for me/us" business as that would go forever....Short answer is all of the indirect management expenses for a multi-national corporation with 9000 members worldwide that operates 140+ airplanes are considerable and that is what Duck is talking about with his comments about the yearly "fee" the Old Dominion Squadron pays to HQ.
I think you are more interested in becoming a sponsor of the CAF Hellcat which is based at Camarillo....this action being in some way a tribute to your dad. I think this would be a fitting thing to do, as I intend to do the same thing for my dad when the time comes. HOWEVER, do not expect that your sponsorship "entitles" you to anything more than knowing that the airplane will continue to fly. The CAF Hellcat is assigned to the Southern California Wing of the CAF, and they are responsible (thru their staff) for its operation. If you ponied up significant dollars (six figures would be nice) such that the airplane would have some kind of endowment, then you could find yourself becoming a very popular person within the SoCal Wing and the CAF!
What used to be the case was a guy could plunk down 10K and become a Flying Sponsor....which meant he could fly the airplane if he had all the requisite time, qualifications, etc, AND he was then responsible for his share of the yearly cost of operation. That cost of operation has gotten way out of hand, and so more high profile airplanes are becoming unit sponsored...
Back in the way distant past the line between a CAF-owned airplane and an individual-owned airplane operated by the CAF was sometimes really blurry, which has led to lots of misunderstandings and wrong information. Today, with only one exception I can think of, the CAF doesn't "operate" any non-CAF airplanes.
Hope this helps....and I hope you decide to give some money to the CAF Hellcat. It is a beautiful airplane and your money would go to "keep 'em flying." You ought to join the CAF and wander down to Camarillo and get involved: hands on experience with the airplanes is really what it's all about.
Old Shep