Another Stunning Air Force Announncement!
Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:38 pm
Air Force Museum officials made a surprise announcement today admitting to a 61 year long hoax, covering up the fact that on October 1, 1947, George Welch was actually the first person to break the sound barrier in a North American made product known as the XP-86 Sabre...
(not to mention the ME-163 pilots
)
It's not midnight yet!
(not to mention the ME-163 pilots
)
It's not midnight yet!
Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:07 am
If only they WOULD admit it! Probably will take 100 years after yeager dies 
Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:29 am
George Welch has always been one of my favorite pilots of the WW2 era.
I'd like to read more about this. Did it really happen? Also did the ME-163 really break the barrier first?
I know this was an April 1 post but somehow it rings true.
Thanks!
I'd like to read more about this. Did it really happen? Also did the ME-163 really break the barrier first?
I know this was an April 1 post but somehow it rings true.
Thanks!
???
Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:52 am
just do a wix search using agruing and Jack and you'll probably find something 
Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:25 am
No to the Me-163 doing it - airframe design limited Mach number.
Enjoy the Day! Mark
Enjoy the Day! Mark
Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:58 pm
You'll want to find and read a book called Aces Wild. Blackburn, I think, is the author.
Made me firmly believe ol' Mister Yeager didn't do it first.
What's the story on the German pilot?
Made me firmly believe ol' Mister Yeager didn't do it first.
What's the story on the German pilot?
???
Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:38 pm
Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:32 pm
The Me-163 apparently "hit" the sound barrier....aerodynamically speaking it didn't have what it took to fly beyond it. It had the power and the pilots gave it a go...
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/frheft/FRH9911/FR9911f.htm
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/frheft/FRH9911/FR9911f.htm
Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:41 pm
PinecastleAAF wrote:George Welch has always been one of my favorite pilots of the WW2 era.
I'd like to read more about this. Did it really happen? Also did the ME-163 really break the barrier first?
I know this was an April 1 post but somehow it rings true.
Thanks!
Same here.
I always knew he was the first!
Way to go George! 
Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:21 pm
I once bowled a perfect game, but there was no one there to see me do it. The X-1 was ready to go for months, but the USAF had to wait for NACA equipment to be used for the record to be official. It is that simple, according to both NACA and the USAF it can not be claimed as official unless the recording equipment was on hand. During Welch's flights it was not. During Yeager's it was.
Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:23 pm
"You be the judge.
Motive: Welch clearly demonstrated a desire to push the Sabre through Mach 1. His discussions with the design engineers at North American and with his friends and family are proof positive of this.
Opportunity: Welch had two opportunities to dive the XP-86 prior to Yeager’s record flight.
Weapon: There can be no doubt that the XP-86 could exceed Mach 1 in a dive. This was officially established on November 13, 1947. There were no changes made to the aircraft that could improve performance between October 1 and November 13. So, there is no doubt that the XP-86 was capable of supersonic flight from day one.
Witnesses: There were hundreds, if not thousands of people who felt and heard the two sonic booms of October 1 and 14. Several have since testified to hearing the booms. In addition, we have the testimony of those who spoke with Welch where he admitted to making unauthorized supersonic dives.
Additional evidence: Welch’s flight logbook contains entries for all supersonic flights, including those not authorized. "Mach Jump": Welch was the first to report this phenomenon. No one had observed "Mach Jump" prior to the flight. Yet, today it is considered as decisive evidence of supersonic flight.
Summation: Welch announced his intention to dive the XP-86 through the sound barrier. Welch had at least two opportunities to do so. Welch was flying an airplane that was easily capable of exceeding Mach 1 in a dive. Welch told several credible people that he had flown through the sonic barrier. There were hundreds of witnesses, including one General and other high ranking military and civilian personnel who heard and felt the sonic booms. Welch witnesses a phenomenon that only someone who had exceeded Mach 1 would see. He reported it before any other pilot. Therefore, he could not invent it. Welch's logbook lists the two flights as high Mach (the same terms used for the official speed runs).
The Verdict: Guilty as hell."
Motive: Welch clearly demonstrated a desire to push the Sabre through Mach 1. His discussions with the design engineers at North American and with his friends and family are proof positive of this.
Opportunity: Welch had two opportunities to dive the XP-86 prior to Yeager’s record flight.
Weapon: There can be no doubt that the XP-86 could exceed Mach 1 in a dive. This was officially established on November 13, 1947. There were no changes made to the aircraft that could improve performance between October 1 and November 13. So, there is no doubt that the XP-86 was capable of supersonic flight from day one.
Witnesses: There were hundreds, if not thousands of people who felt and heard the two sonic booms of October 1 and 14. Several have since testified to hearing the booms. In addition, we have the testimony of those who spoke with Welch where he admitted to making unauthorized supersonic dives.
Additional evidence: Welch’s flight logbook contains entries for all supersonic flights, including those not authorized. "Mach Jump": Welch was the first to report this phenomenon. No one had observed "Mach Jump" prior to the flight. Yet, today it is considered as decisive evidence of supersonic flight.
Summation: Welch announced his intention to dive the XP-86 through the sound barrier. Welch had at least two opportunities to do so. Welch was flying an airplane that was easily capable of exceeding Mach 1 in a dive. Welch told several credible people that he had flown through the sonic barrier. There were hundreds of witnesses, including one General and other high ranking military and civilian personnel who heard and felt the sonic booms. Welch witnesses a phenomenon that only someone who had exceeded Mach 1 would see. He reported it before any other pilot. Therefore, he could not invent it. Welch's logbook lists the two flights as high Mach (the same terms used for the official speed runs).
The Verdict: Guilty as hell."
Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:19 am
That is all great, but once again in the same rules put out for NAA, NACA, and the USAF was that the official recording equipment had to be there. Once again the X-1 program was held up for months because this equipment was not ready to be used. You can't have a double standard and say well to offically break the sound barrier Mr. Yeager these instruments have to be here. Oh Mr Welsh says he broke it first, never mind all of that equipment I guess he did it. Point blank no equipment no record. That is how it is. Some might not like the fact that Yeager broke it first, but you can't go taking things away from people because it makes a better story.
Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:29 am
So then "the fact is" that Yeager was the first to officially break it with all of the official recording equipment and doodads present. That does not give anyone the right to say he was the first to break the sound barrier 
Pretty simple really...he was the first to officially break the sound barrier. Seems there is sufficient evidence to support the fact that he was not the first to do it by a long shot.
Devil in the details
Pretty simple really...he was the first to officially break the sound barrier. Seems there is sufficient evidence to support the fact that he was not the first to do it by a long shot.
Devil in the details
Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:13 am
"Oh Mr Welsh says he broke it first, never mind all of that equipment I guess he did it. Point blank no equipment no record. That is how it is. Some might not like the fact that Yeager broke it first, but you can't go taking things away from people because it makes a better story."
No one here questions the fact that CY was 'officially' the first. But there is no doubt Welsh was trying to break it and hundreds of folks heard the sonic boom, its just that simple. The fact is Chuck got the glory, and George got there first.
Steve G
No one here questions the fact that CY was 'officially' the first. But there is no doubt Welsh was trying to break it and hundreds of folks heard the sonic boom, its just that simple. The fact is Chuck got the glory, and George got there first.
Steve G
Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:34 am
I have to agree with Steve on this. While Yeager was obviously the first person to do it officially, with all the required documentation, it's pretty clear that Welsh did it first. Unfortunately, like so many other things in life, the official proof is what seems to matter the most.
John
John