P-40 Air to Ground live firing Wanaka Airshow

[PeterA]

The press release just in.

I am imagining these will be blank rounds, but stranger things have happened!

PeterA

Exclusive Event for Warbirds Over Wanaka International Airshow 2008

General Manager of Warbirds Over Wanaka, Gavin Johnston, announced today that a warbird would feature in a live gun-firing exhibition for the first time ever at an airshow in New Zealand. “An Auckland based Curtiss P-40 Kittyhawk has been fitted with working guns. The guns will be fired from the aircraft as it takes part in the show”, he said.

The Chairman of the Warbirds Over Wanaka Community Trust, Garth Hogan said “The P-40 will fire all six machine guns in an historic re-enactment of attacks on shipping over Rabaul during 1944. The public have never had the opportunity to see such an exciting event. The sound from these guns firing is seriously loud”.

As the aircraft passes along the display line at over 240mph (386 km/h) it will fire at the barge in 2-second bursts. In that time the aircraft will have travelled over 700ft and the guns fired more than 60 rounds.

“The sight, sound and smell of these guns firing is a unique opportunity to see what it was like when these aircraft flew in anger during the war”, Garth said.

“This event is exclusive to Warbirds Over Wanaka International Airshow 2008. No where else in New Zealand (or the world) will you see anything like it”.

The live firing exhibition will take place on both the Saturday and Sunday of the show.

New Zealanders in both the Middle East and the Pacific used the Curtiss P-40 Kittyhawk extensively during World War II. Fitted with six 0.50 calibre guns, the aeroplane was very successful in both the air to air combat and ground attack roles.

very interesting indeed.

[airnutz]

They'll sell a ton of DVD's when they record the event...boy would I like to be there
to hear it live!!!

I am now thinking about all kinds of questions to ask about this idea.

Other than being illegal, if you configure the guns to fire blanks, what's to stop from firing real ammo? I'm not a gun expert, but I would think that if they are configured to fire blanks, they're pretty close to being able to fire real ammo. Anyone know more than I do about the possibility of this? I would think in this day and age that configuring an airplane to fire machine guns would be a very difficult, if not impossible legally to do. I think it's a wonderful idea, I just wonder how it could be done legally, even if they are blanks. I'd like to hear more on this subject from smarter people here on WIX. Also would you see the muzzle flashes or are the blanks inside the gun compartment with only noise and no flash?

[warbirdcrew]

Other than being illegal, if you configure the guns to fire blanks, what's to stop from firing real ammo? I'm not a gun expert, but I would think that if they are configured to fire blanks, they're pretty close to being able to fire real ammo. Anyone know more than I do about the possibility of this? I would think in this day and age that configuring an airplane to fire machine guns would be a very difficult, if not impossible legally to do. I think it's a wonderful idea, I just wonder how it could be done legally, even if they are blanks. I'd like to hear more on this subject from smarter people here on WIX. Also would you see the muzzle flashes or are the blanks inside the gun compartment with only noise and no flash?

Hellcat-- Not too sure about the rules in kiwiland, but AFAIK its not illegal in the US, although it might be extremely difficult. There was a T-6/SNJ/Harvard variant of some sort that sold on Courtesy not too long ago that had working machine guns. The specs stated that the sale was conditional on ATF approval of the buyer. I'm sure it falls somewhere in the jurisdiction of the 2nd amendment.

Other than being illegal, if you configure the guns to fire blanks, what's to stop from firing real ammo? I'm not a gun expert, but I would think that if they are configured to fire blanks, they're pretty close to being able to fire real ammo. Anyone know more than I do about the possibility of this? I would think in this day and age that configuring an airplane to fire machine guns would be a very difficult, if not impossible legally to do. I think it's a wonderful idea, I just wonder how it could be done legally, even if they are blanks. I'd like to hear more on this subject from smarter people here on WIX. Also would you see the muzzle flashes or are the blanks inside the gun compartment with only noise and no flash?

Hellcat-- Not too sure about the rules in kiwiland, but AFAIK its not illegal in the US, although it might be extremely difficult. There was a T-6/SNJ/Harvard variant of some sort that sold on Courtesy not too long ago that had working machine guns. The specs stated that the sale was conditional on ATF approval of the buyer. I'm sure it falls somewhere in the jurisdiction of the 2nd amendment.

Indeed, but I believe in the states, you cannot own a working automatic weapon of any type. But again, I'm just not sure about all this. But I really enjoy this conversation. Please continue, I'm learning some good stuff here.

[Mike Bates]

You can own automatic weapons with the right permits. There are clips on youtube from some of the events that they have. I've seen everything from submachine guns to 50 cals and mini-guns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLAIemsd ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1xIGm5G ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffvVw7k6Oss

Mike

[Pat]

Indeed, but I believe in the states, you cannot own a working automatic weapon of any type. But again, I'm just not sure about all this. But I really enjoy this conversation. Please continue, I'm learning some good stuff here.

Sure you can! Buy one from a Class III dealer after jumping through the ATF's hoops. I don't know about the legalities of mounting one on an aircraft, though.

PS Some states may not allow them (California?) I don't know for sure.

-Pat

[DaveM2]

Apart from the P-40s we are hoping to see this there also..but US Customs may prevent this WMD getting here in time
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/sto ... d=10494166

Dave

[warbird1]

So, what exactly are the rules here in the United States regarding firing blanks from machine guns on board aircraft while flying? Is it illegal or not? Is there anyway to make this possible?

What an exciting act, I hope that we can see more of this type of thing in the future! Kudos to the New Zealand government for allowing this historic reenactment to take place.

What about the rumor that Lewis Shaw's P-51 was being fitted with working machine guns in Breckinridge? The plan was to fire real bullets from it in flight. Anybody know more about this?

Also, some time ago, before Glacier Girl was test flown, the original plan was to put working machine guns in the nose, have it flown by an Air Force Test Pilot and go fire lead at the ranges at Edwards AFB. It was supposed to be filmed. Obviously, this never happened, but does anybody know why?

I, for sure, will be buying the DVD of Wanaka!

[bdk]

PS Some states may not allow them (California?) I don't know for sure.

Completely legal in California with approval from the California Department of Justice. The only thing is you'll never get the approval unless you're in the movie industry. You need to meet the federal requirments as well.

As for installing live weapons on aircraft, that may require some additional approvals from the FAA and you also have to consider the spent cartridges and links that will be dropping off the aircraft. I'd hate to get hit in the head with a .50 cal shell at terminal velocity. Might not be fatal, but I'm sure it would leave a mark, at least temporarily!

[muddyboots]

Actually it's not all that awful. It's not something you want to happen, but it won't kill you. (my team was at the wrong spot during a live fire in BiH once and we were peppered by casing). You definitely want it to stop, and I guess if the sharp end where the slug goes hits you it could do damage, but not all that bad.

You gotta remember terminal velocity isn't the speed at which something will kill you, just the speed at which it will no longer speed up as it falls lol!

[N3Njeff]

This already does happen in the states.

trying to get my friend to come down when i go up in the spring........he was 3/16 cav dark horse, door gunner on OH-6's



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YwKRd8w ... re=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32ZCqn5P ... re=related

[CAPFlyer]

I don't know about using blanks, but I see no issues with using weapons modified to use nitrogen under the FAA regs. As well, the piping and storage tanks could be installed in the existing weapon bays and theoretically if setup right would sound fairly realistic. I don't know about using propane which is a favorite of ground vehicle owners as it's a pretty volatile substance and would probably be best setup in the drop tanks (so you can separate them in an emergency), but there are some fairly substantial and expensive mods that would have to be done and FAA approval might be a challenge, but it's technically feasible.

I for one would love to see the aircraft involved in AirSho be able to have some form of simulated weapons aboard so instead of just seeing the gun runs hearing them as well, but there's a lot of things that have to be done. The easiest to do are the bombers with their flex mounts and turrets as they typically capture the casings within the aircraft or helicopters which also typically have their flex-mounted guns with catch devices for the casings.

[astixjr]

We have a live Vickers gun on the Sopwith in the museum here at Creve Coeur Airport. It's set up to fire blanks for several reasons but it's a "live" Class III gun. As far as I know, the Feds have never come out with a blanket prohibition on re-arming an aircraft as long as the gun or guns are legal and all applicable State and Federal possession laws are followed.

A P-40 with live guns? Now that would be cool! Let's see, six M2 high rate aircraft guns firing 800 rounds per minute at $2.50 per round, hmmm.....makes the avgas seem cheap.