Interesting 2007 J-aircraft recovery film

[Kaigun Fan]

Interesting J-aircraft recovery footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGdF0G-4v5E

It would be great if we could get some "official" comments from the DownUnder salvage party.

[Jesse C.]

Looks like someone did some fancy lawyer talkin' down there and got some planes!

Who are these guys?

[daveymac82c]

That is a very interesting video. Thanks for posting it.

It sounds like the villagers are getting a raw deal out of it, but I have to wonder how much they make off of tourist visits to see the wrecks, and how many people go to see them at all.

Seeing that video makes me want to travel there one day. It looks beautiful. I doesn't matter to me if there are WWII wrecks there or not.

Cheers,

David

[Dan K]

Good stuff, Ron. Keep posting whatever you discover on the topic.

[bdk]

Thank heavens these airframes are being recovered. How much tourism could these possibly bring?

[warbird1]

Thanks for the link, Ron, that is awesome! I'm glad we're finally getting some information about the Justin Taylan debacle!

Some comments:

1) I didn't know "The Rock" was a tribal leader on Ballalae! Lol!

2) Wow, $ 220,000 U.S. Dollars in exchange for 11 airplanes.

3) Did you see how flimsey the fuselage was when it twisted and warped when the white guy put pressure on it. Some one is going to have a heck of a time restoring that jumbled mess. At least it will be good for patterns!

4) Did you see the bright red, almost new Hinomaru on the underneath side of that Betty? A picture of that same exact plane is in Darby's, "Pacfific Aircraft Wrecks" book.

5) Tourism? It looks like Justin has been talking to the villagers again, just like he did in PNG.

6) The village leader spokesman said that the airplanes were "both priceless and worthless at the same time". It sounds like they know the planes' true value in their current state. One statement was disconcerting that he said and doesn't bode well for future recoveries. He said that "no amount of money would be acceptable for the airplanes". With more of that sentiment, it will be very difficult to get any more planes out.

7) The article did confirm there was at least one American involved in the deal. So, are we to assume that the planes are destined for the U.S.?

8. Was it just me, or was it extremely difficult to understand what the people were saying. Except for "The Rock" and the newscaster, I couldn't understand a word they were saying.

9) I'm glad those planes are finally getting some TLC. After seeing how flimsey that one Japanese plane was that they were moving, I'm glad someone is taking measures to ensure the planes are preserved for posterity. Those planes won't last much longer.

10) The article stated that the recovery had the full blessing of the government. Good news!

AWESOME NEWS!

[PeterA]

Was it just me, or was it extremely difficult to understand what the people were saying. Except for "The Rock" and the newscaster, I couldn't understand a word they were saying.

'Pigeon/pidgin English'. An amalgam of English and local, used in many parts of the world.

It was a big Empire.

PeterA

[Kaigun Fan]

Here's the transcript.

**********************************
First Aired: November 20, 2007



HOST Tina... (more)

Added: January 09, 2008

ONE NEWS
First Aired: November 20, 2007

HOST Tina Lemazi: Solomon Islands is known overseas for the role it played in the second world war. It was here in Solomon Islands that the Americans turned back the Japanese advance in the Pacific. The Solomons Islands played a pivotal role in the war and its remnants have dotted the la ndscape throughout the country.
But a move to sell war relics from Shortlands overseas has raised concerns. Two weeks ago, with the approval of government, the chiefs of FAMOA were paid 50,000 SI$ and signed off on a deal with an overseas buyer to sell their relics overseas. Owen Talo with more:

Owen Talo, Nila Village (in tok pidgin): One News Camera, is now at Nila village, Shortlands Islands for a special happening. The Minister of Tourism and a delegation of two officers and the minister of tourism all have come to Nila village Shortlands, for signing a very important something in terms of removing all the war wreckage of shortland, especially at Nila, is the story I received. FAMOA, stands for Farou, Mono and Alu [Islands in Shortlands]. All form one council of chiefs, where everyone has signed for taking out war relics. Many of those remains from the war are from Shortlands Harbor and also here in one hanger of Japan where airplanes remain this time. The time we arr ived, a big signing ceremony happened where everyone agreed to remove every relic from the Shortlands. This is a setback for tourism of this country. Also, TINA, a ship RAMSI [Regional Assistance Mission, Solomon Islands] has used for doing work has also come Shortlands and they will remove every war relic from Nila and also Ballalae.

NARRATOR Owen Talo (in tok pidgin): Alison Laore tells his thoughts about the removal or all war relics from Nila and Ballalae in Shortlands

Alison Laore [Chief Agana's Brother]: Today, we met with one man from England, who comes to buy all the planes. One man Craig Turner, who says he is coordinating this sale. Plus the minister of Tourism who arrived and Sir George [Lepping] and Albert [Laore] who came all the way from Honiara. With them [Lawrence] Kiko from [Solomon Islands National] Museum. All them come for meeting with chiefs and people of Shortlands about war relics, for removing all of them. People here in previous meetings have concern to stop them, but it is hard because since the minister has come, he himself tells us 'this project is supported by government and Prime Minister [Sogavare] signed one letter that they brought, saying that the government supported this move for sending out all war relics. One MOU [Memoranda Of Understanding] signed today - every plane from Shortland is to be removed. They said they will reserve them all. Once you take them all, I don't know what will be left for tourism. What will tourists come to look at? What history will tell them there was a war here? There will come here to look but not see anything. So, that is one concern of the people here. Maybe the future for our children will not know anything. They will not know there was a war here, because they can't see anything at the site where the war happened.

Owen Talo (in Tok Pidgin): Chief from Samanago Village on Farou Island, Ninamo Otuana accuses government for selling 11 war wrecks here.

Ninamo Otuana : They told us no tourists will ever come here because of the liability of government if anyone gets into grief. If anyone explodes themselves or walks on a live bomb. That's a minor problem, compared to what they told us. People for the Shortlands have been walking and building gardens and houses on that island [Ballalae] for almost fifty years. No one has come to grief. We believe there are a lot of people behind this deal. People we don't know about. People we have never seen, people we will never meet. There is a lot of money changing hands. We as chiefs don't even know when we are going to get our bit, that they have promised out of 220,000 US$ to move eleven planes. They are priceless and worthless. Priceless in the form of history, and importance of tourism coming in to see [them]. And worthless, they are just metal. But the pricelessness to us is it is our treasure as well. No money will make us feel good about moving anything. No amount of money.

NARRATOR (Owen Talo in tok pidgin): Otuana questions government's bottom-up approach and policy. Instead of helping people, government is selling resources that belong to the people for a cheap price.

Ninamo Otuana: It is a big issue. I think Solomon Islands has had enough of giving away land for an ax handle. Now we want the handle, head and the stone to sharpen the ax. We have stepped up a little bit. I won't delve too much into the politics of the government of today. Thinking about it, maybe we can make some changes. The only way to make change is to step into the ring and fight for it.

NARRATOR: Owen Talo for ONE NEWS.

[Steve Nelson]

What were the types recovered? I recognized a Betty, a Val, and I think a Zero, but what was the one with the gracefully swept fin that all the locals were leaning on?

SN

[airmanual]

but what was the one with the gracefully swept fin that all the locals were leaning on?

SN

Pete 2 seater floatplane i think.

Laurent

[airmanual]

but what was the one with the gracefully swept fin that all the locals were leaning on?

SN

Pete 2 seater floatplane i think.

Laurent

[bdk]

If the locals had business acumen at all, they would take the money they received in this transaction and build a hotel for the tourists and otherwise improve infrastructure. The Maldives, Tahiti and Hawaii don't have any better scenery than they have there.

There is no way that they will get enough tourists wanting to look at that stuff to sustain their economy.

[warbird1]

The other thing I don't get is why the locals are so attached to these airplanes. If they held them in so much respect, they wouldn't have cut pieces of aluminum from them and use airplane pieces for their daily existence. Also, they claim that once the planes are gone all of their W.W. II history will be gone and forgotten also. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a TON of W.W. II artifacts, besides airplanes lying around? Surely, there are bunkers, tanks, grounded Japanese ships, AAA artillery, and a lot of other junk lying around. Is the removal of 11 airplanes really going to make their history "disappear" like they claim? I would think that the airplanes, after they're restored, and on display in Australia, the U.S. or wherever, would create a lot more attention on their background, and where they came from. Would this not inspire other people outside their country to possibily visit them to see the rest of the war remains?

[warbird1]

There is no way that they will get enough tourists wanting to look at that stuff to sustain their economy.

Ooooh, better not let Justin hear you talk like that!

[JDK]

The transcript is very interesting, thanks for that.

One of the basic errors we keep making is projection our own cultural norms, expectations, economic drivers etc. onto other cultures. PNG is utterly different to what most of us are familiar with. Tanking about an 'economy' with our expectations is just one facet of that.

If the locals had business acumen at all,...

They've probably got about as much business acumen as you or I have ability to survive in PNG without a guide. And the jungle nasties you might see coming. The human sharks in PNG are less manageable. Why would they have 'business acumen' where would they get the funding and tools? It's about as appropriate as you or I looking for leeches on the high street.

Sure, it's easy to postulate what 'they' should do there, given almost total ignorance of the local environment and factors - and factions.

The subsistence economy doesn't mean that people there don't have aspirations like this - they are just mostly impossible to fulfil.

The Maldives, Tahiti and Hawaii don't have any better scenery than they have there.

Slightly different 'economy' for a start and rule of law, I'd suggest, even from my limited understanding. Business tends to be a bit 'different' and less tourist friendly where there's serious political and civil instability.

The other thing I don't get is why the locals are so attached to these airplanes. If they held them in so much respect, they wouldn't have cut pieces of aluminum from them and use airplane pieces for their daily existence.

Think about it, you've answered your own question. If there was a better alternative than using bits of old aircraft, don't you think they might just use those alternatives? Life's tough there. Fooling about with old aeroplane junk comes a long way after subsistence work. The fact they're interested at all is amazing - the fact that they can't do much about it, and are essentially at the mercy of whichever westerner who hives over the hill isn't to the west's credit.

Also, they claim that once the planes are gone all of their W.W. II history will be gone and forgotten also. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a TON of W.W. II artifacts, besides airplanes lying around? Surely, there are bunkers, tanks, grounded Japanese ships, AAA artillery, and a lot of other junk lying around. Is the removal of 11 airplanes really going to make their history "disappear" like they claim?

That surely doesn't stack up. If we read the above statement without having our historic aircraft enthusiast glasses on, it would almost be funny. It's all the same war; why should they be keen to let you have the toys you want, leaving the (your words) 'junk' that's just as valuable to other enthusiasts?

I would think that the airplanes, after they're restored, and on display in Australia, the U.S. or wherever, would create a lot more attention on their background, and where they came from. Would this not inspire other people outside their country to possibily visit them to see the rest of the war remains?

A good test is what do we know. It hasn't created tourism in that way so far. There are numerous recovered ex-PNG aircraft in Australia, NZ, and the US, today. The main reason I've heard and seen for people to go to PNG was to get 'the others' or to look at what's left. I've yet to hear of anyone going to see 'where there used to be an aircraft'.

The people of PNG had a hard war, not of their making, advantage or profit. The main interest expressed on WIX is about the aircraft, representing, in the main 'our guys' and as above quite casual ignorance and lack of care over what the was in PNG was really like and whose lives it wrecked beyond a three year war tour.

We've spent more than thirty years regarding these aircraft as irrelevant curio wrecks (books in the 70s, such as I was reading yesterday document that). Yet we now want them to just give up our old junk because, like a spoiled brat, we want our toys back. From the transcript above, it's clear some locals have a better idea of the local history of W.W.II and of the western interest in these aircraft than some of us here. As you've mentioned, there's a lot more to it than some old aircraft wrecks.

No I don't think it's a black & white case, and I don't know what's best, but like the Swamp Ghost situation, it's clear it's easy to screw up a stable scenario through trying to do business / recover / loot (as you prefer) because it's not viable at the moment.

Another assumption that pops up here is of some group of 'them' over 'there', often from the same posters who bewail the lack of understanding of their own elected representatives and restrictions on what these WIXers are allowed to do by their government. Yet, this aspect does translate. There are issues with the elected leadership of PNG not agreeing among themselves (pork barrel motives or others) just like in other countries we can think of. These leaders don't seem to act in the best interests of the locals, and I'm sure there's also dissent among the local native groups. Thus far it sounds just like the leadership of the USA or Australia and the happy band that is a restoration organisation.

No personal criticism of anyone implied, just perhaps raising some issues to consider.